Start-Up (2020)

A story of a Good boy..

I had a chance to visit a real entrepreneurship promotors for start-ups in Seoul, circa November 2019. If you already watched the drama, or in the middle of it, there it is similar to the 'Sand Box'. They shared interesting and inspiring stories about youth entrepreneurships that they had been helping and facilitating, their ups and downs, their successes as well as failures. This drama seems to have successfully captured these dynamics, so to say.

The story in 'Start-Up' was started so nicely. Without going into detail, the exchange of letters between young Seo Dal-mi and young Han Ji-pyeong using a name of a boy called 'Nam Do-san' has given a big promise for a great storyline. SDM and HJP's character developments during this stage were so real and heartwarming, especially with a special family-like friendship between HJP and SDM's grandmother..

The main story started 15 years later, when their paths crossed in start-up business competitions with the appearance of the real Nam Do-san 'out of nowhere'. From only a picture of a boy whose name was used as a 'dummy' in the letter, to a suddenly appeared male-lead with increasingly significant screen times as the story went. And as many of us could guess, SDM and NDS, with HJP were tangled in a love-triangle, in between the hypes and dynamics of the start-up business. This is the point where the drama started to fall..

The plot was not well written to allow audience to accept and justify the sudden appearance of NDS to become the male lead while the audience has already bound with HJP's good characters, and how NDS managed to win SDM's heart. The 15 years of SDM's emotional built-up from the exchange of letters with HJP, even though using NDS' name, has become insignificant and eventually disappear from the story..

Not sure if I want to watch again. Credits are for the cinematography and creative camera plays. Kim Seon-ho is the right actor to portray HJP - he managed to pull out all the good characters of HJP as the 'Good boy'. The 10 / 10 on acting is for him.

Oh, I love Lee Bo-young's cameo appearance, btw. :)

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Wasted Potential

This drama started off so well—promising storyline, interesting characters, great cinematography, and the business/startup setting. However, it went downhill on the second half—the main leads were regressing, central concepts abandoned, underdeveloped themes, and most importantly unclear and inconsistent messages.

To me the fatal flaw was that they focused on the romance AND dragged the love triangle unnecessarily, wasting screentime that could have been used to build up appropriate resolution and development for all characters. My take is that the second lead's unexpected popularity prompted them to stretch the love triangle for viewership, compromising the original plot and messed up the last episodes. The ending was so rushed that dialogues in supposedly climactic parts were lazily written and unconvincing.

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Do not watch unless you love Injustice and being Disappointed!

The Only good point of this drama is found in the "Second Lead" HAN Jipyeong, and his chemistry with the other characters. Unlike the ML whom I personally found awkward and creepy.

The Script began on the top of a Mountain to reach the bottom 10000 League under the level sea. Past the 9th episode it's a waste of time. The Pilot is completly misleading, useless. It's make us fall for the second lead then he've been used too much and too many time to end up like he did.... Unfortunate(ly).....

The Writer lost herself and us, in the mist of this massive Mess!

What's happened to you, Writer-nim? We need explanation....

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What you feel is not the Second Lead Syndrome, it's the Plot Betrayal.

So, why do I think Start-Up committed a plot betrayal? Let me ask you this, how did the main male character of the "story" become the second male lead of the "series"? In writing a story, you don't build a foundation that you will not use in the end because you can make it float by capitalising on a fanwar.

You might also be wondering why Han Ji-pyeong is favoured by majority of the viewers than Nam Do-san. We don't need to pit the two male characters against each other and compare their features and flaws. The story is written to make viewers experience Dal-mi's feelings vicariously. The plot's exposition clearly established who really is Dal-mi's love interest. The rising action of the story is premised on Ji-pyeong's struggle to reveal himself (and his love) to Dal-mi. They dragged this til it reaches its climax in Episode 15, making its falling action relatively short (with some lame excuses and justifications for a Do-Dal ending) and the denouement disconnected from its origin. Hence, the backlash from some of its viewers.

It really was a promising series. Majority of its viewers who watched it until the last episode hoped that the original main male character's struggle will be resolved properly even if it was virtually impossible when Episode 14 gave all the leverage to Nam Do-san. Hence, even if Nam Joo-hyuk plays Han Ji-pyeong or Kim Seon-ho plays Nam Do-san, majority of the viewers will still root for Ji-pyeong. It clearly is not about the actors but the story and how it established its characters. Nam Do-san was not even a full character until the last minute of episode 2, whereas Ji-pyeong is already a core character connecting all the other main characters, i.e. halmeoni/Mrs. Choi, Dal-mi, and the boy from the television and newspaper, Do-san.

I have to admit that Episode 16 was able to conclude other subplots well, from the apparent success of their start-up to In-jae's reunion with halmeoni and her family. Sans the plot betrayal, this series would have been one of the best KDramas of 2020.

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Let's Face It: It's A Youth Drama With the Wrong Lessons

Let's admit the fact that Start Up's premise is that of a youth drama, coming of age set with "rainbows and unicorns sailing without a map" set in a very demanding and fast paced world of Start Ups and Tech.

Park Hye Run hasn't made such a youth oriented drama since Dream High (also with Suzy) as she tackled really deep and quite interesting topics such as integrity, justice and 'doing the right thing' in all her shows between Dream High and Start-Up.

I won't go into the summary of the plot because everyone else has gone through it, but here is a more technical and objective review of the series.

The core theme was all about the tech industry and business behind it, which was a great refresher. Business topics in Korean Dramas aren't new, but the attack from the first half of the series was fresh and nostalgic to a mature viewer who once aimed to change the world and are now hit by the realities that they wish to change, and the idealism that the writer would like to express and show the youth in "following their dreams."

Of course no drama is complete without love - but that's exactly the topic that threw the drama off by overextending its due date. The rising action towards the revelation of the real letter writer, the foundations of such letters, and the actions each character did became the core focus of the entire first half, which is quite magnificent, touching and in fact very relatable - but also created probably the greatest divide in terms of characterization that I've seen in KDramas.

The further you watch, the more glaring it became: Start-up easily layered a cross-generational drama and gripe because of the levels of maturity the main leads (Dal mi and Do san) and the 'supposed' support (Ji Pyeong and Choi Won Deok halmeoni - Dal Mi's grandmother, to be exact - as she is technically our fourth lead here)

With a youthful cast, supported by seasoned thespians as second leads, it could easily have been two separate story lines to reach the goals they are all searching for, and that is where the boundaries were severely misplaced by involving Ji Pyeong to a love triangle that was already weak at the beginning, extending an unnecessary tragic plot for the character that has a ML backstory that made viewers hooked.

I could mutter and rant all along with how injustice was done towards the role of Ji Pyeong and all the values that Park Hye Run tried to instill in all her past series this decade (2011 to 2020) went down the drain because of one show, but I'd rather attack this review as rational I can get, "emotions aside, " which was the key tone she wanted for every other mature individual - character and audience - to withhold, so that a Dal Mi - Do San angle would be shoved to our throats.

I cannot blame Suzy and Nam Joo Hyuk. Both showed acting prowess in other series they starred in, which called for a more vivid interaction and micro-expressions we could not see in the entire 16 episodes. Experience? They could use more adlibs. Miscast? Probably. But same could be said to the other side of the equation if they are pitched as leads.

Kim Seon Ho and Kim Hae Sook were gems - the only redeeming factors of the casting, considering they placed everyone else aside like half baked cookies. Even Kang Hanna, who's considered as a second female lead, felt like a plot device so that everyone can bow down to such a crazy and unreal plot, like a rowdy bull charging its horns over an audience.

Instead, love could have been used instead as a plot device to settle and sort out the differences in the immaturity of Ji Pyeong's character towards indebtedness and the need for filial support, and greater purpose, something which was glaringly communicated since Ep1, but shoved as a romantic angle between a mature, almost-40 man, and spunky-late 20's youth with the need to learn more about life's twists and turns, which the real confession ending in Ep16, depriving the audience of the 'divine' justice they have set up for the character since Ep2. The wise use of symbolisms at the start of the show were thrown away, which is ironic considering how Park Hye Run relies on it so much in her past work.

As for the lessons? The 'kids' got away with everything, and the grown-ups were made to 'eat their words, ' albeit reluctantly. The reverse is true in the real world. It sets a dangerous 'rainbows and unicorns' precedence to any young individual with the hope of starting their own business.

Overall, it was an emotional rollercoaster, and a mentally anguishing pain to watch. Something that's starkingly and snarkily told to mature audiences by the 'kids' who pretended to mature in the series - to completely set emotions aside and use their rational judgment on them. It leaves a bitter aftertaste which could have been remedied had they focused on two different plots of romance and self growth equally among the leads, than drag the mature character, Ji Pyeong into an unnecessary immature and toxic situation - and wallowing in like a pig in the mud, a contrast where most mature audiences are dying to get out of such toxicity in their lives.

Considering that Park Hye Run and Oh Choong Hwan have worked with the majority of the cast of Start-Up in various hit shows, they should have known better - and have no one but themselves to blame for such a violent and divided reaction from fans.

For what it's worth, you're sucked in the story because its too close to reality (no one gets bedridden in the hospital, no bus explosions and no present time deaths, car crashes or kidnappings). But that's exactly where the frustration sets in - as such a content like this is supposed to be an escape for the majority of people who feel deprived or invalidated in their life in needing of the justice and love the feel they deserve - exactly like Ji Pyeong.

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Biggest flop in k-drama history

This drama had one of the best start any drama I have watched to the day, and really excited me to continue to watch it because it was intriguing. Not gonna lie this series is a good one overall but it has some of the biggest flaws in the story. The writer wasted almost have of the drama in a triangular love and didn't develop any of the main leads after episode 8. the series just stagnated. From the very first episode we are introduced to this amazing character and we are led to believe that he is the main character of the story, but nono.
The story revolves around Mr. Han who wrote letter to Dal-mi becoming her only friend during a really difficult period of her life, and yes he only did it because Dal-mi's grandmother asked him to, but we have to take in consideration that even after that he wrote a lot of personal stuff in those letter, so the story starts after this letters and Dal-mi's father dying after getting and investment.So we're let to believe that Mr. Han and Dal-mi are the main characters. in the case of Dal-mi she is amazing in the begging, a very talented woman capable of accomplishing anything she wants with a relative different approach to life, and her driving force is her older sister that choose to live with her mother instead of her father like Dal-mi choosed, basically she wanted her sister to regret her decision.
Up to this point we basically have the plot set in stone to the story begin.
Hey with this kind of plot you're set to have an amazing drama. Then you introduced this other character Nam Do-san who is consider to be a genius programmer but a really awful like really bad as a CEO, why is he introduce you may ask? well, the letters I talked before where sent to Dal-mi using his name as sender. This just make this story a love triangle and really interesting which one of the two she will choose her partner or boyfriend or whatever you wanna call it. Up to now everything is enticing.
The problem this series have is that after she is led to believe this Do-san guy is really her friend is told that it isnt and it was infact Mr. Han. So after them lying to her their relationship went south, because she doesn't know which one of them is the one she likes, the Do-san of the letters or this other Do-san. This part is basically what can move the story forward to our next problem. So she became mad at the two of them and up to this point, we are led to believe that she is only with Do-san because she thought he was the one from the letters. So either Do-san wins her heart or Mr. Han does and here resides the problem of the story, not only Do-san does nothing to win her heart or her trust again but also Mr. Han does basically nothing to win her heart apart from a love confession. So either of the character can't be with her in my opinion, this was basically the part to win her heart and both fail so hard in my opinion to do.
So when the writer then says that Dal-mi love the new Do-san, it doesn't make any fucking sense, like why? She needs a really good reason in order to be with him, Writer: Dal-mi likes Do-san because he is Do-san. What???????????????? How????????????? Why?????????????????
This guy after Dal-mi finding out became violent (he punched Mr. Han because of his own poor decision making abilities and jealousy), low-selfesteem, dork, jealous, an idiot. So why does she likes this toxic guy? What sets him apart from Mr. Han? this is a very important question to answer when your reason is because he is Do-san. This is why a lot of viewers are discontent with how the story came to be.
Personally I liked a lot more Mr. Han to end up with her BUT he is also at fault that he lost Dal-mi, He does nothing to win her over again. So in the end I think she didn't have any reasons to be with any of them.
Another problem that this series have is her second lead, Her older sister is set from the very begging to be her driving force to become better and an amazing business woman more succesfull than her older sister. This character is left in a corner with no screentime what so ever. If she is her driving force you better have them interact with each other like a lot but no. This character had so much potential but wasted to bad.
Finally the start-up problems, eventhought I'm not a succesful businessman or own a big enteprise, but hey trust me when I say that, this guys just got lucky. They develop and amazing app but with no oportunity to generate money. This kind of project you can only make possible and viable when you have already a succesful business and you have a lot of money not a really good idea to a new company to be making. I feel like everything they achieved is because of luck and not because of hard work. So, what could have been a point in favour to the series becomes one of its problem.
Apart from the Story, I can say with full confidence that all actors did a really amazing job in portraying this poorly written story. I can say that this director has to me accountable for this dramas problems. because when you're shooting this series you can probably tell that some things are not right and should be changed because this is also part of the Director job.
I will never rewatch this drama in my life and I will never recommend this drama to anyone unless I hate the person, because this series overall is an above average one probably a 7 or 8, but those problem makes the story so dragging and anoying to the point of not wanting to watch the next episode. Hope this is writer and director learn from their mistakes and improve in their next drama, because we're humans and humans can make mistakes.

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Instilling wrong values in youth by glorifying them!

I expected a lot from this drama because in the beginning I felt so excited and felt like it was going to sweep all awards away! But NO!

There was a beautiful back story, the direction and acting in the first few episodes were so touching that it connected with the audience really fast! It is OVERHYPED! Like a gift box which is beautifully wrapped but hollow inside!!

An orphan boy, an ambitious girl, a kind grand mother, letters, the geek and his friends all were likeable and story was at its best until episode 9-10!

What went wrong? I will only talk about characters!

DALMI : Sassy, ambitious, outspoken, bold girl became a dumb robot! She doesn't have a voice of her own, can't take decisions of her own! Leads on the second male lead for 3 years. Takes best advantage of him to climb up the ladder! And she doesn't need explanations to anything! Her bf lies to her left to right. She is OKAY with it! She only has her grand ma who is getting blinded. She is ready to leave her alone and go to San Francisco for her job! Not a single second thought! Her bf is violent, manipulative, has no integrity, and she is completely OKAY with that too! In fact she is digging her own grave in the drama itself! A very bad example for the young generation! I saw young suzy fans glorifying her as the best character in the drama! IMAGINE THE DAMAGE THE WRITER HAS DONE! She literally poisoned the young minds! Dalmi is a very dangerous example for youth because she just doesn't think and act! This is the era of reason! People are smart! Young girls should especially be upfront and inspiring! THE WRITER GLORIFIES a flawed woman and what a waste of her effort! The actress plaing Dalmi gives ambiguous expressions and we can't read her face! We don't know if she is in love or sorrow or anything sometimes because of her blank expressions!

DOSAN : Extremely likeable, ambitious, kind character in the beginning! He was like a breath of fresh air which soon started smelling like trash! Yes he is very supportive to her gf. In fact she is her dream! NOW THAT IS A WRONG MORALE! He is an already lost character as his business is a failure! He lacks common sense about business which in the beginning is funny and adorable! Soon his character starts to deteriorate! He is not honest! Has no integrity! Doesn't give the gf the space she needs! Manipulative! He takes advantage of others' stories from the beginning to the end! He leaves his mother on the road in the middle of nowhere that too in the night to go to the gf! Is it something to glorify? Ah! he love sthe girl so much that he even left his mother and came running to her! she loves her so much! ???? Is it the message to the young generation? This is very DANGEROUS because I have seen many young Nam Joo Hyuk fans glorifying the character! Best character in the story??? THE WRITER AND THE MAKERS will have to be responsible for the damage they have done!

Taking a cute, handsome popular actor to perform the male lead and justifying every bad thing he does is outright criminal and very socially irresponsible! They knew that he will be glorified, they knew the young gen will relate to him and think this guy is exemplary! But in order for TRP and popularity they betrayed their own conscience! At least they could have made him a little likeable and justify that he is the male lead! no it was shoved on our faces by a single line : "Dosan, you have changed" HOW PATHETIC!

HJP : The saving grace of the drama! He was blunt , spits out the truth, brutly honest when it comes to criticism, chivulrous, loving, caring and kind! Despite being an orphan, he is living a grand life but with no friends or familial love or any romantic love. The Good boy remains a good boy but he is so sacrificial that even in the end he says : " I am not the Dosan from the letters" to make Dalmi feel unburdened and to make her take her decision! (To which she responds OKAY! yes! no honest real discussion about the most important part of the play, even after the time skip and not even in the end!) He is pitted against the weakly written male lead in order to bring a change into the K drama Norm by the writer! And they also cast a brilliant actor with excellent looks! He even has micro expressions being a theatre actor for 12 years! He made the general audience fall for him easily with the nuances of his acting! and easily outshines all other actors including the Male and Female leads who actually are not very good actors! Now he is the exemplary character here for all the youth! BUT sadly the youth obsessed with their favourite actors refuse him as a character. I read a NJH- Suzy fan tweet which said , " Please uncle, don't disturb their kiss" !

So the age gap of five years between Dalmi and Dosan has been painted as a bad thing and the more mature character has been rejected by the youngsters! They idolize the weak and bad male and female leads!

And the writer and the producers are very careful not to give any space or promotion to the second lead around who the whole story revolves! They don't give him interviews, they don't put him in posters, even the only OST which was made for him as his point of view, carried the cover photo of Dosan-Dalmi! Makers purposefully stopped pushing him because they knew his popularity among the audience will over shadow the whole drama and the cast!

Other characters : don't have anything to do much in the drama! Their I said it! But they all acted well!

Overall it is a wasted potential! Now cry for the spilt milk!! The writer may have tried something new but it failed. Started with a bang and ended with a whimper!

I wish they had not glorified bad values! I wish they had written the story with a flow! I wish they had shown some character growth in the male and female leads! instead they deteriorated! I WILL NOT RECOMMEND THIS DRAMA TO ANYONE I KNOW!

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I feel like the writer wanted to be different by making dosan the ml. he was unlike the usual mls. he was awkward, self continuous, easily got hurt and thought he was lacking, he believed everyone's criticism about him so he always seemed to not want to try.
that's when he met dalmi and she was like a spark for him. she wasn't his goal, but his motivation, he didn't want to succeeded to get her, he wanted to succeeded with her and I found that support and road really sweet.

usually mls are rich, confidence and jerks (kinda like the 2ml), they also share the "childhood connection", so most of the time romances feel forced by "destiny" and the ml is way too controlling. (again like the 2ml ;/)
so this was refreshing in that part, I'm giving them another 0.5 just becasue the ml was not the "childhood friend to lover" trope xD

on other ways dosan was dalmi's motivation, her support and the hand that chose to walk along side her rather than in front or behind her.

I LOVED, saha and her coupling with Cheol San, I wish they focused more on them though. also I think the writer should've went with a slow burn romance instead of the random middle breakup and getting back together at the end.

also I think they wasted In Jae. thankfully she wasn't the evil witch, but then it was kinda like dalmi "made it" becasue she depended on her sister's company. tbh if she started fresh no one would've made her a ceo so fast.
then there was the fact that the grandmother's ex daughter in law came back running to her, and her own grand daughter didn't for 3 YEARS! just becasue she wanted to change back her surname (how long does that even take).. that was just an excuse to add her story for the last ep so they could have content...


for the 2ml, tbh I see him as a fairy godmother, he gave and gave but stayed in the shadows which just shows how the writer doesn't intend to give him anything else in return, he was just the spark for the main couples' fire/story.

basically the writer wanted a past connection without a past connection. and in some ways "this" was the drama the writers chose the 2nd lead. (personality-wise) dosan always felt more like the 2ml. he was not the 1st love, he was not rich and he didn't have a chance until he "browned" the typical 1st lead's backstory, ie the rich 1st love ;)



there's a difference between "samsan tech couldn't have made it here without you" and the "tell her if she fails I'll be her plan b"
2ml was like the fairy godmother mixed with the evil witch, it just didn't add up. there's a big difference between guidance and being cynical, I really can't function around someone who keeps yelling that I'm wrong or useless...

there's a difference between "depending on someone" and someone who'd break your motivation ;p he didn't say, "work hard but if you fail I'll be here", he says "don't do this, you'll never make it"


there was a drama like this, the 1st couple had the rich girl/poor guy but people were all about the 2ndery couple who were the usual rich guy/poor girl.
so here people are not getting sls but they're getting first lead syndrome xD

the songs were nice but kinda felt like itaewon class and I never rewatch stuff

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It's not real life, but an enjoyable drama

Quite an unusual story. Experiences and negative situations in their childhoods provide us with 4 main characters as adults who carry some baggage.
Broken families, white lies, naivety, tenacity, bonds, expectations and anchors in the past, are the mainstays.
I liked every character, as the well matched cast were so good.
Do San (NJH) is a drama typical geek; desperate as a child to not let his parents down, naive, self conscious, low self esteem, feels a failure, doesn't quite fit in and very soft.... but, somehow very likeable. His 2 best friends and business partners are great characters and their friendship is heartwarming.
Dal Mi (BS) family was split, with her childhood becoming a polar opposite to that of her sister's, which leads to fractured, competitive, cold and distant adult interaction. She wants to make her father proud, beat her sister and take care of her grandmother.
Ji Pyung (KSH) had a tough childhood, found guidance and support from Won Dook (wonderfully played by a favourite, Kim Hae Sook) and provided emotional support, as a favour to her, through letters to someone.
As adults the planets align and all these characters, plus some, are brought together.
We journey through shifting expectations as compromises have to be made for dreams to be fulfilled.
We occasionally come across characters that value their personal reationships, love and loyalty over money and there are several of those here.
There is a fast forward of 3 years in the story line, but I felt this drama was more about relationships, trust, consequences and the main characters' lives together, than their businesses, so I wasn't too bothered about that.
However, I felt the final episode was very rushed and the ending of it very crammed, however I still enjoyed the drama overall.
I laughed out loud and shed a few tears.
NJH's acting is very understated. He can play a cold, arrogant character (like in Bride of Habaek), attractive boyfriend (Weight Lifting Fairy Kim Bok Joo), 'out there' (School Nurse Files) and awkward/soft (this one), with ease.
Don't believe all the negative reviews, try it with an open mind and make up your own about it ?

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One of the best 2020's dramas

It is sad to see that the 'shipping war' messed up the experience for many viewers.

In the first episode one of the most distressing and exciting death scenes I have ever seen in my over ten years at dramaland.

Photography and direction are spectacular and the script was impeccable, the characters were not betrayed (so much so that in the end even the 'good boy' understood that he was attached to a false memory). There was an acting show by all the main actors, Kim Seon-ho deserves the recognition he got (I was following his work before Start-up and I know it was already time for it), Joo-hyuk had his best performance as an actor in this drama (the Do-san before Silicon Valley was very unique, different from all the protagonists he has ever done), Suzy was wonderful and Dal-mi was an inspiring and empowered woman, her family made me cry a lot (that is the grandmother everyone wanted).
Perfect drama!
Looking forward to the upcoming projects of the actors, writers and directors.

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A very insightful and inspiring show

Start up is a drama that I enjoyed watching every second of. It was well paced, inspiring and satisfying in every aspect.
The point of the show doesn't lie in the romance, that's something I didn't even think about unlike the millions of people on the internet putting themselves in teams about who deserves her. I was more worried about the other aspects of the show. It is rare that the other parts of the show are so much more interesting than the romance.
The show first of all shows the process and problems of starting a business in detail. It shows the society losing trust in you including your family.It shows how hard it is to actually start a business.
The concepts brought out in the show are straight out of entrepreneurship textbooks. The idea of "sandbox" was extremely interesting. I think this show will really help someone who is planning on starting a business. It's rare that a drama can be that insightful.
The pacing of show along with perfect titles and definition of concepts was a very interesting, there was not one time where I was annoyed or bored of any character or scene.
The characters were all lovable and leave a huge impression. The female lead is hard working and works her way up with not much family support or college degree. The second female lead works with her insecurities, ego and guilt and comes out as a more competent and confident woman. The male lead also goes through a similar change in terms of finding himself and his strengths. The grandma's role was so heartwarming along with second male lead. They were the ones that made me cry the most.
"Money" and "choices" are huge underlying concepts in this drama. It shows how small decisions can change your life and bring more problems and benefits, no choice can be right or wrong but have thier own consequences. Also that no person's life is a bed of Roses.
It also brought out many dilemmas in terms of technology and people and the middle ground that must be maintained. Some of the points put across by the characters really made me see different perspectives.
The show is a visual treat, the scenes are shot so beautifully along with some filters here and there. The music that plays throughout the drama is beautiful with songs from some of the biggest artists like red velvet, gaho, Jamie, bol4 etc. The list has not one average song in it. The acting too is really good as expected, the casting is perfect.
Overall I really enjoyed this and would recommend it.

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