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Stockholm Syndrome is not ok... nor will be ok

Lamu

My partner and I stopped watching after episode 3. We also had enough and felt really uncomfortable :(

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Marcrisan81

@Tae Yim your message almost made me teary. Your words brought me so much hope. You were someone who enjoyed the show, yet didn’t lose touch of the fucked up frame of this story and many (most?) Korean series.

You talk about several aspects of Korean dramas that are worth a discussion on themselves! I agree with you in all of them and I’m so glad you brought them up. You have awareness and a critical eagle-eye view so needed when we watch romance, in example.

But what about people that don’t have them or numb themselves because they want to experience a love story? We internalize stuff when we are watching stories. We vicariously feel, experience, what the characters are living. That’s why I’m so afraid for girls to watch this kind of series, because the abuse is undercover. It’s portrayed that if you are having a coffee with your friends in a café and your awful exboyfriend comes all of the sudden and grabs you by the wrist and takes you out and puts you in his car because you are “fun”… is ok, understandable, and you’ll see later it’s for your own good. And what if is not?

You see, storytellers have a responsibility. The stories that we tell and how we tell them, matter. Stories shape our world. For that reason I had so much hope in this screenwriter and ended up so upset. Her work in “it’s ok not to be ok” was groundbreaking. The series had a lot of flaws but overall she took one of the most controvert topics (mental health), and use stories to inform Korean people with rigor and candor about depression, PTSD, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, alcoholism, dependent personality disorder… just talking about the patients in the hospital! She used one of the worst words you can tell someone in Korea, “crazy” (미친”michin”), and turned it around with a plot full or characters, and weaving a different folk tale into every single episode. Awesome writing.

Here, she takes her bravery again to turn around another Korean curse, “bastard” (새끼아”sekkia”), hence a misunderstood topic as you mention: orphanage, adoption and so forth. So I was expecting a lot! And, probably reading you all, it comes later all the education about this issue. Yes, thanks for informing people!! But oh no, no like this… Not for me, at least.

I think it has come a point for me that I cannot do what you do (or what I did?) “Ok, I know that what I’m watching is f*up but I’ll put it aside for a bit and collect some gems at the end”. I was like that before so I’m not judging at all!! I spent many happy years in fantasy messed up Kdramaland! Lol. Maybe it’s that I’m too fed up with the same bias and BS? The super production “Queen of Tears” (one of the highest rated in MDL) comes to my mind now. I had to drop off for the same reason. The first episodes made me feel physically sick (all that about “someone wanting someone dead”). I knew I could no longer look the other way around and wait for the happy ending justified the means.

I just hope there are more people like you that have that kind of awareness and don’t internalize gender inequality (with the Joseon / boss-employee type of romances) and all the gender abuse.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts! <3


@Lamu your message just popped up. It was the exact same for me, I stopped after episode 3 :( Thanks for sharing.

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Tae Yim

@Marcrisan81

I share your thoughts onto storytellers having a responsibility that goes often ignored.
I'm an artist myself so I try to be aware of these things.

Recently it's getting difficult to watch stuff such as anime as there's insane amount of pedophilia support coming from Japan, together with just romanticized abuse. Hell even looking at some games.

I'm glad to see someone caring about what media is teaching/spreading. It's definitely awful and it goes deep. Media is the easiest way to manipulate masses of people, always has been. No one can blame you for not wanting to put up with it any longer.
Thank you for your thoughts as well. Have a nice day.

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Forest_lass

It's called "gorgeous privilage" coz imagine someone else bargin in on a bride hours before her wedding  and taking her kicking and screaming! It's a like the first 10 mn of a crime doc!

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CKDramaddicts VIP

Interesting conversation and interesting comments/observations about the focus on the dad versus the mom. 

I've only watched the first three episodes, so I can't comment on where this story is going, but I would say that while I agree with what you've said, I look at it from a slightly different perspective in that the type of drama also matters. Right from the get go, this show isn't supposed to be your typical fairy tale romance type of drama (where I would find his behaviour far too problematic and unacceptable to play off as the "romantic hero"). 

Immediately, we establish that he is actually kind of an sleezy a**hole. Sure, a charming and likable one, but still a jerk. He might have reasons for how he is and he might have redeeming qualities too, but at the end of the day, he is clearly NOT meant to be portrayed as some idealized character that viewers are supposed to blindly believe is boyfriend material, even if there is a romance in the story.  He is clearly a broken character with a lot of issues and baggage -- and nothing to lose.

In that sense, I don't think it's that viewers necessarily think any of it is okay or acceptable, just that we are watching a different type of story. It's rated MA on Netflix, not the usual TV-13/14/15 that typical romance kdramas are rated, which tells me that it deals with mature themes for mature adults who are smart enough to understand the differences in genres. Maybe an extreme example, but people don't watch Sopranos or Breaking Bad because they think what the characters are doing is acceptable or okay, but they may still like them in context of the story that's being told.

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CKDramaddicts VIP

That being said, I do completely agree that in traditional romance dramas, there is a lot of problematic behaviour that gets played off as funny or "okay" or "not a big deal". In those types of dramas, where the *entire point* is to idealize the romance, idealize the  love story with a happy ending, I do think there is a responsibility to ensure issues of abuse, consent, etc. are portrayed ethically.

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Marcrisan81

@forest_lass

Hahaha you nailed it! I exactly talked about that with my sister about the movie Passengers, which she loves. Without giving any spoilers I said to her, “Imagine that instead of the gorgeous Chris Pratt doing that to Jennifer Lawrence, the one was a creepy guy or Hannibal Lecter! Would you still believe is romantic??”. So there is this thing called “gorgeous privilege” hahaha, love it!          


@CKDramaddicts

Thank you for joining the conversation and for your great insights.

You’re right, the main character is portrayed as an hedonist from the start going. He only does what is fun (in terms of work and also abandons her girlfriend because she isn’t), he doesn’t treat anyone properly and so forth... Hence yes, he is a jerk. So it’s funny that MDL uses the series tag “emotionally strong male lead”. Reaaally misleading…

As much as I love and share your points of view about the kind of genre that maybe pretends to be? or how the ML is portrayed, I cannot help but think that those are too idealistic hahaha I’m sorry! I wish everyone could see the wrongness of his behavior as in shows like The Sopranos or Breaking Bad were the “satire vibe” is in your face. Here we have a “Comedy, Romance, Drama” in Kdramaland and girls are not watching with your great critical lenses, they are watching a damn hot guy saving a girl from her stupid actions.

I opened this discussion because of that. After reading so many comments or reviews loving his behavior and critiquing her for being super annoying with all that kicking and screaming, I had to say something. Did they prefer instead to be submissively and quietly kidnapped? It’s scary to me.

Also in other genres you get the counterpart, “the law”, in example. But here, at least in 3 first episodes, the screenwriter doesn’t give us any vibe of “wrongness” of what he is doing. It seems to me that the writer is going all the way with “the bad boy saving the lady from the arrange marriage with the awful prince” type of all folk tale. We are in the 21 century and she didn’t want to be saved, much less been kidnapped, and she has a saying.

But I wish, I WISH there are more beautiful people like you that has that kind of discernment! My soul would be far more at ease :)


 CKDramaddicts:
I do think there is a responsibility to ensure issues of abuse, consent, etc. are portrayed ethically.

(A non religious) Amen!

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Toot

@CKDramaddicts.  I see the rating as being around the very mild sexual content, and basically having zero effect on who chooses to view. I'm honestly no longer convinced that these ratings inform viewers choices at all. I find them frustrating because sexual content is often much more strictly rated than violence, which I prefer to avoid.

About the fact he's a bad guy as a framework. That is interesting.  It turns this into a  Greek Tragedy. For all his bad deeds, he gets his comeuppance in the end...

Oh yeah and "Pretty Privelege" has been the subject of sociological studies for decades ^_^

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Forest_lass

@Marcrisan81 I saw Passengers  and as someone not remotely attracted to Chris Pratt i was pissed at what he did!

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Lyyu

I'm still watching Mr. Plankton, but do people think "It's okay to not be okay" was not problematic!? Seriously, the FL was abusive, she had some trauma, but it isn't an excuse for how toxic she was (she did try to kill people more than once, isn't that problematic?). Of course she can became a better person, but the romance was so problematic. Honestly, I didn't know the screenwriter was the same one, now idk if I'm gonna finish this one, because the first 2 episodes bothered me a lot, exactly because of how the FL kept saying "no" about the whole thing (and I hated It's okay to not be okay)

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