Timeline question

Hmmmmmm .... I am going to choose NOT to read the LBC2 spoilers. I can't bear bad news, the usual BL "dramatic" devices forcing couples apart, making things go wrong etc.

There has been a big defect in most Thai series relating to female characters. The reality is that girls and women play a big part in gay boys' and men's lives - as mothers, sisters, friends, colleagues, teachers, role models, allies, employees, grandmothers, neighbours, managers, daughters,  etc. All of this could be developed in a very rich way in  any BL series. But it rarely is. Instead, we encounter female characters almost exclusively in the role of "problem girlfriend". Either she is intrusive and basically destructive - or she's a nice girl who ends up hurt. Sometimes both dimensions are there. But it is the most disturbing, silly side of BL writing, because the one thing which girls and women generally are not in a male-male love relationship is girlfriends, love rivals, etc. OK, if we had a series all about bisexual guys, maybe this use (or misuse) of female characters would make a little more sense; although bisexual men are as capable as living in a committed male-male couple as gay men. 

But "problem girlfriends" are absolutely not a key feature of gay men's lives or relationships. It's an insult both to the gay men and to women (as actors in particular) to keep on featuring these ridiculous girlfriend parts. Please! Can't we recognise the reality of what men who love men experience in life - and instead create interesting parts for the innumerable female colleagues, friends, relatives etc (see list above) who play a much more interesting and important role in gay men's lives than do "problem girlfriends". 

I just wish the writers could grasp that reality could offer them much more interesting stories to explore. No family homophobia (which, sadly, I would acknowledge as realistic in some cases), no Problem Girlfriends, none of these tired, silly, yet as you say popular "dramatic" plot devices. Instead, if I were a writer, I would be so keen to go ahead with so many fascinating real possibilities - possibilities which they have created themselves. I love all the interesting possibilities embodied by damaged, ruined villain Lhong, as I've said, and Tharn and Type simply forging a relationship as a gay couple in Bangkok offers so much territory - including comedy and even music. A tiny detail, for instance:  when Lhong is ruined and defeated in the last episode, it's very intriguing that he gets especially distressed that Tharn is going to reject not him but music. It's as though music is something which retains a deep meaning for him, a route of connection to others in the midst of his disastrous, messed-up life of despair. Who knows what an imaginative writer could do with that? Without bringing in a Problem Girlfriend "poking around" as you say!

I think they try to follow a pattern that's "easy to grasp" for everyone. I'm not sure what they general audience is but I guess younger girls/ women mostly. Maybe they just try to create a dreamy, ideal setting where good prevails and in the end despite a few bumps in the road everything is quite linear and ends well. 

A skilled writer could definitely take the story to  the next level and build on the loose ends left in TharnType. I also don't like the "gay for you" thing, it's awkward in a way. I've seen it in LBC too and it's there in other series as well. It must be specific to this genre. 

They left lots of possibilities open at the end of TharnType. Maybe Lhong could spend time in a mental facility to recover and get help and follow up some years later? I think out of all side characters he had potential to be developed in either a positive or even more negative role. 

I mainly watched TharnType because of the reviews and I was curious about Thai dramas, but then I started thinking there could definitely be so much more to them,   to make them more popular with  other audiences too. The cultural factor should also be kept in mind though. I tend to analyze things based on a western perspective but it might be very different from what the local audience thinks ( not sure on that, not trying to offend anyone!).

You're right, I noticed that. Even people reviewing the series here pointed out that a lot of those scenes are creepy or plain out abusive. I understand the difference in cultures and how romance is portrayed so I didn't jump to label any of it. 

I am rewatching TharnType now because the first time I watched it, i didn't pay attention to all the details in the first 3-4 episodes. 

What do you guys think could've been better about the series. Rather said, what would you add or remove from it to make it more interesting or to break the typical BL pattern?

You know, I have lived in London for decades. I feel I have access to the highest standards of acting, production, direction etc on stage and screen. I have seen so many great plays, comedy and drama, in the theatre over the years. And unforgettable television series of all kinds, on our state BBC network, and on independent TV. But I am endlessly impressed by all aspects of series like TharnType and Dark Blue Kiss, plus some of the Taiwanese productions. It's all absolutely first-class. Of course, the nature of something like Thai comedy is ... Thai.  Every culture seems to have its own traditions of humour.  Some are rich in funny anecdotes, some feature elaborate narrated jokes, others give pride of place to slapstick, yet others favour the absurd or the outrageous. Sometimes the humour translates well, sometimes it doesn't.  Likewise, the vocabulary of romantic love varies from country to country.  So things that may prompt me to "cringe" are possibly just ... different - and my cringe is largely the result of my unfamiliarity with another romantic idiom. 

There are many distinctive things about Thai humour that formerly struck me as not very funny - once upon a time - long, long ago. Now it's so different. I think I laugh at the things Thai people laugh at. I rarely find anything "cringeworthy". Not at all. There was a broad slapstick routine in "The Best Twins", a mediocre series, which I was watching the other day the other day which ... actually made me laugh out loud.  As I say, I am so stunned by so much that comes out of Thailand and Taiwan.  

I find some comments impose a Western standard which is also very new and current and mainly associated with North America. I try not to disagree with other people's taste or attitudes or values, but I am very startled by the many complaints of "creepy" and "abusive". Very frequently I absolutely do not see anything creepy or abusive in the scene which is being condemned.  Stroking someone's hair, kissing a sleeping person, age differences etc - these are, or once were, fully part of the language of Western romance and comedy and so forth.  How could stroking someone's hair be denounced as "creepy"? It may be a Western sensibility that forms that harsh judgment. But it isn't my "Western" standard. It represents a very present-day approach, a particular way of scrutinising a production in order to identify everything that in the context of reality might be deemed "inappropriate". But that is not how we evaluate drama or comedy, it just isn't. 

Well, enough of that. I increasingly only watch programming from the Far East. I love it. Just in TharnType, the beautiful camera angles, cutting and close-ups in the filming of almost every dialogue and love scene, the amazing range of emotional nuances the actors evoke - all these things are consistenty amazing. The tenderness we observe male characters share with each  other - i.e. a tenderness taken from reality in the East - is something we don't even glimpse in Western drama/comedy OR real life. The scenes of men or boys crying - it's so much a part of Thai drama - it's so natural and beautiful, only good or bad according to the actor and the script quality - but it's completely part of what we are used to seeing.  In the West, men weeping is high drama, often seen as a moment of extreme emotional breakdown and indeed humiliation.  

I think you guys hit every point possible. I try to look at these scenes from a neutral perspective because I get it why Westerners and especially Americans might see it as offensive or abusive. Personal space and direct consent is important, that's why you don't see a lot of similar scenes in American movies. 

I personally love British movies and especially theater plays, it's great to have diversity and to explore other cinematic styles. 

I agree with @dee100 about the fast pace and few episodes. 

I also found some of the humor cringey to start with because I'm not used to it. Either that or just not very funny. However, I laughed at so many of Techno's jokes and reactions. In the end after watching the whole thing, you get used to the jokes and what they tend to find funny..

I noticed that just like Koreans, Thai people also seem very close when it comes to friendships. Something that can easily be misinterpreted. I'm not used to that either but I enjoy seeing all these cultural differences.

If I could change anything about the series, it would be more character development ( including some of the side characters) and replacing some long/ dragged scenes or dialogues with more meaningful ones. Also some extra / side plot twists would've been nice!