Romance on the Farm (2023)

Family Matters on the Farm

This has been on my reserve list since it was first announced and I was looking forward to this concept as a costume drama on a farm was new to me. Joseph always pulls off solid acting. I know the video game concept was put in due to censorship and I have no complaints regarding it. All of that said, the English title didn't fit it at all and it should have just been called Family Matters on the Farm.

Pros: The entire concept was interesting. Had everyone guessing how many of the characters were none NPC. The theories and ideas were great to discuss with other viewers. ML did the best and was my favorite character though everyone did a great job at playing whichever character even the ones we didn't like so much like the toxic family. Our FL was very business oriented but though she spoke her mind, she had a kind heart which I think sometimes was too kind. Everyone that harmed her or her NPC parents and brother did get their comeuppance in more ways than one. Everyone you wanted to hit, absolutely received theirs villains included. The last episode and the hard earned forgiveness of many was actually necessary before the FL could return to her real world.

I liked how they mixed the farming life and the martial arts of SN and 13. There was a nice balance. I know a lot of people weren't pleased with the ending but I think it was a happy ending in both worlds though very subtle. Not every show requires a wedding and babies. They loved each other and even though the extra episode was only like a minute long and didn't show SY aka SN's face, it was obvious from LMN's face and tears that those two would be together in the real world too. I actually got a bit emotional in that last episode with the forgiveness and LMN saying goodbye to everyone. What I'm not sure others noticed was that she somehow exited the VR world without actually putting that last tael of money into the box, it was left on the table and she was still in fact a bit short. So my reasoning is that ML went to meet her and also exited them both out of the game after sitting and chatting about being together forever, then he went to meet her irl to give her the woven horse and reinforce the promise he made in the game.

I love Joseph's OST the most; I don't know why they had someone else also sing it later. His voice was soothing and really brought the song to life. But I have no qualms on costumes, scenery, save for one of FL's hairstyles which was thankfully short lived. You didn't need a large budget here.

Cons: Not very many here; but I do wish that they returned ML to FL sooner at the end and before the last few moments before she exited the game. And I wish that 1 minute special episode had Joseph's face and was part of the last actual episode because as someone mentioned, it did seem like an afterthought. I also wish that FL sounded more mature and less whiny in her conversations; I think that the actress has more or less typecasted herself into these kinds of roles. Would be nice for her to try something where she doesn't always appear brainy and pouty. I'm really nitpicking here because this drama didn't have many cons. Also do wish since they chose to use it, explain more about the game aspect itself; like how long are actual time lapses as opposed to the real world and so forth as well as close out what happened to FL's stingy, uncaring parents irl. That part was left hanging.

Would I recommend it? Yes I would. Just forget the title as romance is nowhere near the primary theme though it does occur and there is great chemistry between the leads. If you're looking for a different costume drama, give it a whirl.

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Amazing..but where's the romance?

Love, love, love the drama. This is one is going on my list of top dramas that I have watched thus far and there is a lot that I have watched and love.

I am satisfied with how the game ended. Those who deserve to be happy, ended up with happiness and those who deserved to be punished, got their punishments. However, I am not happy with how the drama ended.

Let's start with the storyline - it's your typical storyline. The toxicity of the family, the corrupt offiicials, the romance. All of that is what makes a great story and this one delievered. The family dynamic really sonates with me as a modern girl because we see this all the time in real life. It's nothing to new to a lot of families. The thing that really pisses me off is how much they disregard because the oldest son is supposed to bring honor to them, but yet, he had failed them over and over and over again. He cheated and sold his family for pennies (not really, but you know what I mean) and yet, the family still believes him over and over again. Yes, he did receive karma, but even then, his wife and Hua'er still acted like they did nothing wrong and is mad at the family for not helping them when he went crazy. I mean, can they really blame the family for it? Where's the accountability? Why is it that the family have to always clean up their messes? The only person that I feel sorry for is Song Hai Long. The only did that he did wrong was marry Hua'er. I don't think he desrves to be living in poverty with Hua'er and her parents. I wish Shen Nuo would help him obtain a position in the court.

Characters -
I know that many people hated Man'er but I don't understand the hate. She's not greedy and she's not selfish. Yes, she's trying to make a living but can we really blame her? She's playing a character in a game who has a mission that she needs to do. She can't be giving all of her money to her family. I mean, how can you excuse the grandma and aunt for stealing her hard earned money and then call her a selfish pig? Like come on. She's not selfish either. Her wanting to split from the family because she only wants what is best for her little family. The way they treated her family warrants her need to split from them. Like, are those who calling her selfish condoning the things that her family has done? I can't even consider her selfish at all. First of, she helped Hua'er despite the fact that they knowingly and willingly sold her off to a dead guy as part of a widow burning. YET, she risked her reputation to help Hua'er escape her fate. Then she saved Ye'er from the toxic family. Not only that, she had helped the family over and over again. Even at the end, they still forgave them and gave them a place to stay. Time and time again, she had helped her family despite the fact that they treated her like she nothing.

Romance -
Where the hell is the romance?! There was some romance, but there was barely any too. Out of 26 episodes, there's probably like what 2 episodes where we see the romance. That's all I have to say about the romance part.

Overall -
I gave this a 9 rating overall because of the fact that there is barely any romance. The title is "Romance on the Farm," there's a farm, but very little romance. Another reason why I gave it a 9 because I was not happy with the ending. Sorry, but not sorry. I thought that it would at least end like Romance of Tiger and Rose, but it did not. I was not satsified. We didn't get to see Shen Nuo in real life. The "special ep" was nothing special. It only explained what we have already guessed. Shen Nuo is the creator of the game. But we didn't get to see his face. What kind of ending was that?!

I would def watch this again at a later date. Recommend if you can get past the toxicity of the drama.

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We Are Family

I love the type of shows where I go in with very low expectations because of what the trailers show and because I may not like one of the cast, but by the end, I am satisfied and feeling slightly nostalgic because the show and the watching experience were completely different from what I was expecting. Romance on the Farm is one of those shows. And to think I almost did not watch this because of the main lead actress.

However, I decided to still give it a go because of Joseph Zeng. I became a fan after his role in Mysterious Lotus Casebook. I said to myself, “At worst, I would end up dropping it. At best, I would enjoy it and add it to my ever growing completed list.” I almost did end up dropping it like 8 minutes into episode 1 because I could not stand the family. But then Shen Nu came into the picture and I forgot all about dropping it. In fact, I enjoyed it.

This is probably the first drama I have watched with Tian Xi Wei where her character didn’t bother me to the point of yelling at the TV. I attribute this to the Lians. I was too busy hating all of them to even focus on her. They let them get away with too much because "they were family" and they just had made a "little mistake". The worst of them all were the grandma and Shouren's family, his wife, Madame Gu, and daughter, Hua'Er. If the transgressions these made were little mistakes (according to the grandfather) I would hate to see what they would have considered big ones. They were definitely an intense gaming experience.

Additionally, although the character the main female actress portrayed did lack some sense in some things, and the male lead kept coming to her rescue, it wasn’t as terribly lacking as the characters I have watched in previous dramas. I still feel she is typecasting herself, and wish she would take more challenging roles, but I managed to be moved by her in some parts of this show. Around the midway point of the show, the male lead leaves to take care of some things and I was somewhat bored without him around. I was battling myself to stay awake without the Lians being as prominent as they were in previous episodes. I thought I wouldn’t even say this, but I kind of missed their toxic existences.

Despite its title, there is not much romance but we have the pleasure of witnessing cute and heartwarming moments between different couples and on the occasions when the main leads kissed, they were REAL kisses. *wiggles eyebrows* I also loved the OST. Usually using contemporary sounds in a mostly period piece feel awkward and out of place, but not in this one. Plus, Joseph Zeng sang an OST and it fit the story and scenes perfectly.

Although the show doesn’t delve deeper into some issues post-game, as it ended almost immediately after she came out of the virtual experience, and I am still curious about how long she was in there, I am satisfied with all the endings, both the in-game one and real life one (even before the special) as I felt they were fitting. I can see myself rewatching this show, even the initial episodes when the Lians were stabby hand gesture worthy.

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Promised more than it delivered?

I really enjoyed the beginning episodes of Romance on the Farm. It was overall a good, generally lighthearted show. I enjoyed many of the characters and the great performances. The scenes on the farm where the actors are working in the fields were very well done and that could have made for a lovely, healing show. Many of us are starved of such open endless rich natural surroundings, so watching this drama on farming was truly heartwarming. The vegetables, the greens- they were fresh and the lush green fields were beautiful. There was a family, which at least for the female lead that had entered this game world, here was a chance at being loved and belonging. Everything seemed just right.

Yet, the show is a spectacular example of not being self-aware. Is it a romance? Is it about family? Is it about rural politics? Is it about all of these?

This could have been a great show. There was potential and in the beginning there was the momentum. The ordinary life of farmers, the loving and not-so-loving family members. The bride burning and the selling of family members. Miscarriages. Irresponsible brothers, fathers, mothers, cousins, nieces that are incapable of understanding the suffering they inflict upon another member of their family. It’s only when they are faced with external suffering that they spring back to more acceptable versions of themselves. Family is family- no matter how horrible (and toxic) they have been and how much injustice has been inflicted.

That being said, the scenes of this highly strange and interesting family were in many ways realistic. This show was perhaps trying to describe too many things and ended up not being able to stick to anything. I would have liked the show to either get rid of the gaming concept or explore the complexities of virtual reality/gaming and the desire for belongingness, which evidently is crucial to the female lead’s story and yet goes unexplored. There are so many possible philosophical explorations of this situation but the show never ventures there.

The last five or six episodes were quite tedious to watch. There was far too much unnecessary political drama. The worst part was when events are reversed rendering them meaningless. Case in point: the family being forced to leave their land and the grandfather’s bowing to the land was a touching moment ruined by the swift return as though nothing happened. The worst of these is when death itself is reversed. Yes we see that on xianxias where the logic is different, but what purpose did the weeping and desperation of the characters serve when everything was reversed anyway*

So for me, these are glaringly annoying negatives: no clear overarching plot; the gaming part was undeveloped, and a weak last arc. Transmigration themes are getting outdated.

Should you watch it? Yes, it is still an enjoyable show with very good performances. I enjoyed Tian Xiwei’s character and her performance- she played a strong female character that gets things done and that was highly enjoyable. Zeng Shunxi was very good too and their chemistry really worked. The supporting characters were very good too, making us love some of them and hate the others. 8.25/10 for me.

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A video game drama ? No A historical drama ? Maybe.

This drama had real potential in view of the first episode, which I found very amusing and in which the video game universe had a real importance (we see the character of Shen Nuo appearing several times because the program decided so), which is no longer the case afterwards. The humor is less present afterwards, and the video game is totally non-existent.

The big problem with this drama, in my opinion, is that the video game universe is just a pretext, present only in the first and last episodes, and then disappearing. In my opinion, this is not a drama about a person testing a video game, but simply a historical drama with excerpts at the beginning and end of a person testing a video game.

The logic of the video game is nowhere to be found. Lian Man'er doesn't interact with the other characters as someone who knows that these are just lines of code should. From the very first second, she treats the characters like family, crying when a character dies. Everything is illogical in her approach to the game, even though she knows that nothing around her is real.
What's more, she doesn't act at all like she's in a video game. Everything that happens to her seems to be a personal attack, even though she knows once again that nothing is real. She takes things too much to heart that are only there to advance the game's story.
What's more, it's logical for a video game to be made up of several intermediate missions to reach a final goal and bring the game to a close - that's the logic of any video game. But not this one. Here, there's only one mission: to acquire 1,000 taels of gold. I find this so illogical and nonsensical, especially as, with the drama's scenario, this was a perfect intermediate mission for, say, the family to gain independence, or to obtain the restaurant that would allow this and that. The ultimate goal would be to defeat the big bad, made possible by the intermediate missions that allow us to get closer to him. What's really a shame is that the intermediate elements are there, there are these steps that allow this rapprochement, but there's no link made with the game, whereas if they were made necessary by missions, not only would it allow a real logic of this video game universe to be included, but also the drama would be much more coherent. There are certain events and decisions that make little sense, but if their origin were a mission in the game, everything would become coherent: this action occurs because it's necessary for the progress of the game. But here, the drama is full of inconsistencies, which is a real shame because if more video game elements were included, like more missions for example, this probably wouldn't be the case.
Furthermore, the character is testing a video game, that is, it's not yet fully functional, so I'd have found it interesting if there had been some bugs in the game, but the game still has to be present in the drama...

The drama itself isn't bad, but you just have to be aware that it's a historical drama and nothing more. You can't say that the drama is about someone testing a video game, since there's virtually nothing to show for it in the drama.

Regardless of the fact that the drama is supposed to be a video game, we can't say it's bad for a historical drama.
The actors are decent ( I was relieved to see that the lead actress played better than in "Wrong Carriage, Right groom", I had some misgivings), the ost is not bad.
Only, the inconsistencies in the story are inevitable, a real pity as they could have been avoided in my opinion. The inconsistencies with the video game universe are too present for me, so I don't really recommend the drama.

But it doesn't mean that the drama is really bad either, like I said, it is a decent historical drama.

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Love Letter to Romance on the Farm

Not every drama is going to be everyone's cup of tea. For me, I can't remember the last time I loved a drama this much. As a mid-30's woman, most of the dramas out there don't do it for me. It's bad or mid acting, contrived/ridiculous/illogical plots, poor writing, lazy (or non-existent) character development, pandering to idols and over-romanticized notions, overwrought tropes galore, and unrealistic/overblown (and sometimes downright toxic) romantic behaviors. Most feel like just cash cows; the art of storytelling is lost. Slice of life dramas are too heavy for me so, for years now, I've been watching drama after drama but finding most inane.

Then, here comes this drama. The characters - every single one of them - is so well-written that they feel like real, live people from the first episode. Ironic, no?, that these are people who are supposed to be NPCs have more life in them than any non-first or non-second lead character in every other drama? Say what you will of the family and what they do (I won't argue with you on that one), but the fully fleshed character development for each of them is so good that they all act in line with their character. That's some incredible thought put into acting and storywriting.

The FL is one of the most realistically badass and fully fleshed out characters I've ever seen. She doesn't feel like a character to me - she feels like someone who exists out there in the world. I want to see more of this in dramaland. Because this is what truly inspires me in real life. To persevere as Man'er does, to navigate tricky situations as she does, to be smart and kind as she does, to be guarded at times, to be brave at times, to be feel how it feels to receive love at times, to forgive at times. To grow and transform.

I also really admire this director. I will be following her work for sure. She does such an excellent job with allowing us to see all characters' emotional beats (in a look, a glance, a hand or eye movement), no matter how small, so that, whether you hate them or love them, you can understand their motivations, why they act the way they do, and maybe even empathize with some, if only for a short moment. She shows their flaws and also their humanity. And she does this with every single character that has a name.

I also greatly appreciate the director's attention to detail. There were so many moments where I could feel that she truly cares about this story and her craft - and how much it enriches the story. Certain cinematography and shots were really breathtaking - used to serve the scene/story without being overdone. There were also many subtle details - I can't remember them all, but there is one (not a spoiler) where someone says that the pancakes are getting burnt. Then, as the pancakes are being plated in the background, you can actually see that they are burnt. This is TOTALLY a detail that most productions would absolutely ignore but it's little touches like that that completely immersed me in every second of this story and continued to immerse me for the entire 26.5 episodes. This is all intentional on the director's part - she wants you to feel as Man'er feels. Are you in a virtual world or are you watching a drama or are you just experiencing life whether it's real or not and does that even matter at the end of the day?

Overall, for me, this drama is nothing short of art. (Even the opening and closing credits are art in of themselves.) I can understand if a lot of people don't agree. For me, this was a very well-told and well-executed story, by a director who truly cares, with an excellent cast (that's 10+ people!) that each made me invested (good or bad) in every single one of them, along with one of the most meaningful character arcs that I've seen in dramaland. I thank this cast and crew from the bottom of my heart for bringing this to life, so that I could experience, at times, cathartic bawling; howling laughter; the most tender of love between mother and daughter; anger and grief and joy and shock and judgement and compassion towards imperfect people but nonetheless watching and appreciating them grow in ways big and small.

P.S. I also think the politics in the drama is incredibly smart (at least to me, someone who doesn't think politically at all). I was kept on my toes to see how the leads would solve a problem and manipulate people and circumstances. I found it all to be clever and thoughtful writing.

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Love and Life Bloom in 'Romance on The Farm'

'Romance on The Farm' transports viewers to a unique world where the ancient rural landscape takes center stage. The story introduces Lian Man Er, who mysteriously finds herself in an enchanting countryside village within a game world. Here, she encounters the quirky Lian Family, a source of amusement and challenges, many of whom are indeed troublesome and somewhat toxic. Along her journey, she crosses paths with Shen Nuo, an enigmatic figure who appears standoffish but hides a warm heart. As they navigate the challenges of troublesome relatives, embark on farming and business ventures, and work towards prosperity, their relationship deepens, and they pledge to support each other through life's twists and turns.

The drama's title, 'Romance on The Farm,' might hint at a heavy focus on romance, but it's the family dynamics that truly shine. The heartwarming story draws its strength from the genuine and relatable relationships among the characters. The Lian Family, with all its quirks and foibles, feels like a real, albeit eccentric, family, making it easy to connect with their trials and triumphs.

Aesthetically, the setting and cinematography transport the audience to a picturesque rural village where the vibrancy of farming life is on full display. This immersion into the countryside, complete with sprawling fields and charming cottages, adds an extra layer of authenticity to the narrative. The cinematography captures the beauty of nature and the warmth of the village, enhancing the overall viewing experience.

The chemistry between the main leads, Zeng Shunxi and Tian Xiwei, is the drama's beating heart. Their performances are nothing short of amazing, and their on-screen connection is palpable. They convey the complexity of their characters' relationship, showcasing the journey from initial encounters to deep emotional connections. It's their incredible acting that elevates the story, making their characters, Shen Nuo and Lian Man Er, truly come to life.

While the ending may follow a somewhat expected path, the drama provides a satisfying twist with a special episode that reveals Shen Nuo as a real person rather than an NPC, offering closure to the narrative. The revelation comes towards the conclusion of the story. However, it's the lack of ample romantic scenes that leaves viewers yearning for more glimpses into the romantic aspect of Shen Nuo and Lian Man Er's relationship.

In essence, despite the inclusion of 'Romance' in the title, the story primarily focuses on family dynamics. While the heartwarming family narrative is engaging, one can't help but wish for more romantic scenes between the main leads, Shen Nuo and Lian Man Er. The soundtrack of 'Romance on The Farm' is beautiful, complementing the emotional tone of the story and enhancing the viewing experience. The melodies are evocative, weaving seamlessly into the narrative and adding depth to the characters' experiences.

In summary, 'Romance on The Farm' is a delightful drama that transcends its title to offer a heartwarming portrayal of family dynamics and rural life. The exceptional chemistry between the main leads, stunning cinematography, and evocative soundtrack make it a captivating viewing experience. If you're in search of a charming, feel-good drama that immerses you in an idyllic rural world and introduces you to a lovable cast of characters, 'Romance on The Farm' is well worth a watch.

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Tired of palace politics, capital settings? This drama then is for you!

Romance on the Farm is just what I needed, a break from palace politics and elite familes, it hasn't however broken free from scheming. Elements of the drama produce a very healing touch, unfortunately parts the story tend to disturb that.

What I really enjoyed -

~ The cinematography and setting. It's not everyday you come across a drama that's plot is centred around a farm, and the cinematography has done an incredible job of bringing this setting too life. The colour scheme produces a calm, healing atmosphere. I also enjoyed seeing the sets, majority of costume dramas are set with rich houses can be very tiring to watch over and over again, this drama brought freshness in it's simple setting of the farm house.
~ The chemistry between the leads. It was very sweet and adorable healthy relationship.
~ How our FL, despite all the setbacks, kept her business growing. I enjoyed seeing her business get bigger after each setback.
~ The OST, another aspect of the drama that produced healing qualities. It was often very well timed, and I felt it expressed the longing of the couple very well.
~ The bandits, I felt that the story around them was well done and would have loved to see more of them.
~ Certain characters that were well written and acted out, some of which were only support characters.

What I didn't enjoy -

~ All the scheming from the FL family members.
~ The story for the FL felt very repetitive and I slowly lost interest in her side of the story, with how her family kept interfering with her business.
~ The lack of romance. I really really wish there was more romance, as their chemistry was quite good and it was extremely enjoyable to see them together.
~ The main evil boss, didn't feel like an evil boss, in fact I kinda liked his character. If they had made his close subordinate the main villain then I could see how he would have been the main bad boss...
~ The gaming aspect, I just wanted the FL to get stuck in that world with ML, instead of having to return to the real world.
~ I felt the comedy sizzled out towards the end.

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A Drama With Great Potential Ruined By Censorship

Romance On The Farm was pretty good for the most part, however I feel like due to censorship the adaptation was kinda affected. In a sense, its your typical comedic historical drama and its really good, with exciting events that are normal to these genres. In the drama, it is framed as a game, which isn't really touched upon only in the first and last episodes, which makes the drama seem unrealistic, however in the book, it is framed as an isekai. Ignoring this, the episodes in between are really good, I would say there is romance but it isnt heavily focused on, more so a sub genre. I did find Man'er and ShenNuo cute, but their relationship didn't really develop much. I didn't really find the family annoying but there are a lot of scenes with yelling, fighting and drama between them, which I found to be a big part of this drama. I think this was quite a worthwhile drama, that is interesting, overall I rate it 7.5/10!

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Love the leads' acting

Didn't have much expectation of this drama. I read it was a small budget drama. Surprised it turn out really good.
Both leads' acting was superb, their chemistry was really good. Their support for each other, the possibility of not meeting again makes your heart sad. Seeing each other again makes your heart beat fast. Really like them both. Great acting!
The family makes your blood boil where u want to smack them, then makes you laugh when they do stupid things. So many frustration about them. But this is what watching drama should be. Happy, angry, sad, romance, love, all in one. You also enjoy pretty good scenaries in the drama. I enjoyed it

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Farm Romance

I have seldom given any drama a 9.5 rating, but I have to make an exception here, because this drama is exceptional. Never did I feel even slightly bored so far. The cinematography is top quality. The senior actors are divine, and so, so funny! Slight criticism in terms of the ML. I don't know why, but the male actor gives off an arrogance that I find uncomfortable. Don't get me wrong, he's not bad, I just find the SML more likeable, as I did when he was in the piggy and tiger drama... whose name I will be looking up and putting here.... shortly (Love You Seven Times). I prefer actors with "nice guy" energy over those with "arrogance energy". That's just my personal preference, and probably always will be.

This is one of those drama series that really feels local. I mean, the humour and essence of it feels like it could only have come out of chinese culture. The best of Chinese culture.

I can't say enough good things about this series. It's outstanding in every way, and they would have to really mess up the plot for me to stop enjoying it (fingers crossed they don't).

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It's fine I guess. Not bad for a quick watch.

It was funny that the ending gave me quite a jumpscare coz seriously?!!! thank goodness it was back on track few mins later. This drama was about FL's determination to never give up, strive for her own success in businesses, bringing happiness to her family and finding love in the midst all of it.

ML, Shen Nuo, was a calm, clever man that knew how to measure up situation after a few minutes and full of ideas. He was a smooth talker too but he also had a kind heart. He had a mission when he was injured in the area of where FL lived. He decided to lay low and made a deal with FL to help her since he will be staying at her family's place. They grew closer after a while especially after they both had been through so much to help FL set up her businesses and ML fell in love with FL bcs of her personality and how she was different kind of young lady. He understood her as a person and that lead him to make a hard decision that really showed his love for her.

FL, Lian Man'er, was a country girl that was smart on certain things because she definitely had her stupid moments that makes me want to strangle her. She was not afraid to offend her relatives since she wouldn't stand for their bullying her family. She might be a bit brash but she also had a big heart. She wasn't discourage when her first business had to come to an end and she even came up with another thing to sell not long after it. She stumbled and was tasked to help ML. She reached a deal with him and from that moment, he helped her with a lot of things particularly dealing with her difficult relatives and her businesses. She began to like him but something happened and her trust to him was tested. It was only after she knew what he had done for her that it moved her and showed he really care for her, made her take the plunge and expressed her feeling for him. She cared for him and willing to help even though imo, she herself caused the situation to worsen (remember when I said I want to strangle her?). I like that after that one hurdle, she decided to trust him after everything and bcs she believed that was not who he was. They both communicated and that helped.

Love the another couple story, her relatives character growths and of course our 2ndML, Youheng. I can't believe I saw him again as 2ndML consecutively but he was a kind man and knew when to wave a white flag and it helped that FL also was direct to the point with him.

There were two ost that I quite like and I really like how this was different from typical palace and noble household setting.

The ending was happy but not quite what I want but it was fine. Also what was with the special episode?? B for effort, we can't even seen the ML's face the heck??? I don't want to give this drama 8.0 rating but I don't want to give it 8.5 too. More like 8.3.

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