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[Discussion] Zenkai Girl

amrita828
Kawaikochan wrote: I understand your point, and I think your generalization maybe correct. However, as one of the people on this thread who has strongly voiced my dislike for her character, I can honestly say that I tend to dislike characters like her across the board regardless of gender. In fact, her character type is my pet peeve in real life.

But I can think of one example of a male character with a similarly rude and selfish behavior who ended up with the lead female and didn't bother me: Domuyoji from HYD. I didn't like him, but it didn't bother me that he ended up with the female lead (I can't remember her name). I think it may be because I didn't like the female lead either, so I just thought they deserved each other, lol. I think I am in the minority for this opinion though.

A really great comparison for your point would be Shindo-sensei and Sakuragawa-sensei. They have every similar personalities to me, but I think people may respond to them differently because of their genders.


I understand your point - or so I hope.:) A comparison between Shindo-sensei and Sakuragawa-sensei would be perfect because we are not invested in their emotional life, as we are in the main leads'. Towards them, we should be unbiased.
In fact, I confess I was annoyed by his attempt at getting rid of her and take her position. This, although he was very clear about the "power-game" and the fact that Sakuragawa herself took the place of her precedessor without regrets. I feel lucky I have no such professional ambitions, LOL.
So, I can be biased myself, I need to admit it. As a lover of Japanese dramas I'm a little too used to women who resign as soon as they marry, and asian dramas in general do little or nothing to promote the idea of a career woman. Unfortunately, this is one of those instances where reality is not at all far from the drama.
My only excuse is that, while in real life we act and think and decide based upon our own experiences and values, in the fictional world we are given the chance to look deeper into a character and his/her trials and develop some sort of affection for them.

By the way, I am not a Hana Yori Dango hardcore fan myself. At some point, the story became so convoluted and absurd I couldn't care less who ended up with whom. I think the taiwanese version, with all its obvious faults in terms of cinematography and acting, was the one who stressed more and better the developments of the two main leads and actually made me feel something akin to true sympathy for Dao Min Si and Shan Cai.

But I'm letting myself be carried away now. The gender issue is such a delicate and complex one we could talk about it for hours without ever coming to a conclusion.
I am very happy I watched this drama and I liked the main lead despite all her misgivings. But I understand she's not a lovable character in general. :)
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Kawaikochan
Lady just brought up the same issue in the General JDrama Talk Thread (http://www.mydramalist.com/forum/showthread.php?630-General-Japanese-Drama-Talk&p=73224&posted=1#post73224)

Idk if she read this or not. Maybe both your great minds were thinking alike :)
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amrita828
hahahaha, thanks for the flattering association. ;)
I think I'm going to post there too... just for the pleasure of flaring up some die hard romantic who passes by.;)
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NinaJade82
wrote: I am very happy I watched this drama and I liked the main lead despite all her misgivings. But I understand she's not a lovable character in general.


And I understand she CAN be liked by others... I have to accept that, and I don't look down on it. :)
Wakaba is complex, and that is the beauty of a good character. When viewers can dislike a character and still watch the drama, and talk about it, and discuss it, and forgive some of her faults or not, and still accept her for who she is. Sometimes it changes how a person feels, sometimes it doesn't.

I have to watch episode 10 and 11, and then Ill come back to answer some of the later comments :)
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Juniko
So, in zenkai girl, cast as the selfish jerk who slowly see the light thanks to love....we have main girl Wakaba,
And as the humble and emotional cutie who breaks everyone's heart while being mistreated by the love of her life....we have main boy Shota.

But wouldn't it have worked better if Shota was actually the main character? Like girls in the others drama, see the story by his point of view...
"I've been fooled my whole life [flashback] but I'm still happy because that's just the way I am (see, I'm too cute to be true). I was in the train with fake breast in my bag, when suddenly a weird but beautiful girl in kimono grabbed my wrist." something like that ?
And only after a few episodes we get to understand why she act that way, harsh childhood etc.
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amrita828
Juniko wrote: So, in zenkai girl, cast as the selfish jerk who slowly see the light thanks to love....we have main girl Wakaba,
And as the humble and emotional cutie who breaks everyone's heart while being mistreated by the love of her life....we have main boy Shota.

But wouldn't it have worked better if Shota was actually the main character? Like girls in the others drama, see the story by his point of view...
"I've been fooled my whole life [flashback] but I'm still happy because that's just the way I am (see, I'm too cute to be true). I was in the train with fake breast in my bag, when suddenly a weird but beautiful girl in kimono grabbed my wrist." something like that ?
And only after a few episodes we get to understand why she act that way, harsh childhood etc.



Interesting. That would have been definitely new. But I fear we would have hated Wakaba like nobody in such a scenario. Presenting her as the main character gave us more insight in her past and allowed us to connect - albeit a little - with her reasons.
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boutux
amrita828 wrote: Please, don't be offended, but this is very unfair. 90% of the dramas we all watch and enjoy depict an arrogant, selfish man who finally sees the light thanks to a humble woman. We hang on there because we know he's going to change and because, let's be honest here, most of the time he's a hot hunk.
Since I started watching asian dramas, I've read hundreds of posts of viewers hating the second female character: this one is a b*tch, the other one should die, I can't stand her, she's horrible, etc.etc. The same cannot be said about the male b*tches in the show.
The most vehement comments range from "he shouldn't treat her that way" to "oh, let's hope he falls in love with her".

So, for once we have a true anti-heroine and a very humble hero. Yes, she was horrible in many instances. But this drama, like many others, was the journey of a character, from a self-centred, material person to a human being. I wasn't more lenient towards her because she was a woman: I just kind of saw her reasons and comprehended them, even without sympathizing.


i am not offended. i see what u're saying but i think i am different from the fan girls u speak of. i don't enjoy seeing ppl being treated cruelly whether it is a male or female. and i always root for the nice guys in dramas not the mean bad boy with heart of gold. i think i say this every day on mdl so no one is surprised on my stance with good guys never getting the girl. it's the same way i feel about soyoko vs. wakaba. soyoko to me deserves happiness and a life with sota more than wakaba cuz she has always been kind and considerate to him as oppose to wakaba who was down right cruel.

i like that wakaba is a strong female with a go-get-it attitude, it's why she is so successful as a character but being a strong woman doesn't mean u have to be a mean girl does it? and i was still rooting for her until epi 8 with her dad. that episode!!! *shaking fist at wakaba* but wakaba as a character- anti heroine, super strong female lawyer is why the drama is so good right? as much as we may dislike her bad attitude we still come to watch and talk about her. maybe we're hoping to see her redeemed or maybe we want to see her hit rock bottom but regardless she entertained us.
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boutux
Juniko wrote: So, in zenkai girl, cast as the selfish jerk who slowly see the light thanks to love....we have main girl Wakaba,
And as the humble and emotional cutie who breaks everyone's heart while being mistreated by the love of her life....we have main boy Shota.

But wouldn't it have worked better if Shota was actually the main character? Like girls in the others drama, see the story by his point of view...
"I've been fooled my whole life [flashback] but I'm still happy because that's just the way I am (see, I'm too cute to be true). I was in the train with fake breast in my bag, when suddenly a weird but beautiful girl in kimono grabbed my wrist." something like that ?
And only after a few episodes we get to understand why she act that way, harsh childhood etc.


i'm actually happy that it was done from wakaba's point of view. it would be interesting from sota's view point too but i have never seen a lead character like wakaba before in a drama, where as i have seen nice guys in the forefront of many dramas. as much as i hated her it's refreshing to see a no nonsense, hard working female lead who speaks her mind and very rarely makes apologies for it. dramas would have u feel that most japanese women are like soyoko or smtng and i highly doubt that is the case. i think wakaba would fit in very well in the high powered manhattan world that she aspired to. and maybe that is the reason it was enjoyable to watch zenkai girl, i didn't feel like wakaba was a caricature i felt like she was a real woman.

now isn't it nice that i can talk so fondly of this character that i hated so much. damn zenkai girl was a good drama.
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amrita828
boutux wrote: i'm actually happy that it was done from wakaba's point of view. it would be interesting from sota's view point too but i have never seen a lead character like wakaba before in a drama, where as i have seen nice guys in the forefront of many dramas. as much as i hated her it's refreshing to see a no nonsense, hard working female lead who speaks her mind and very rarely makes apologies for it. dramas would have u feel that most japanese women are like soyoko or smtng and i highly doubt that is the case. i think wakaba would fit in very well in the high powered manhattan world that she aspired to. and maybe that is the reason it was enjoyable to watch zenkai girl, i didn't feel like wakaba was a caricature i felt like she was a real woman.

now isn't it nice that i can talk so fondly of this character that i hated so much. damn zenkai girl was a good drama.


Very well said. :)
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Jeaniessi
I enjoyed the conflicted feelings I got from watching Wakaba's behavior. She was so flawed, damaged and infuriating. I loved the dynamic of making Sota have to step it up and not be a wimp. I like that they explored that personality trait as well as the dynamic between the strong, single minded female and indecisive, accomodating male. The anticipation of their coming together and balancing each other was a big part of why I watched this show. That is why, even though I enjoyed watching Zenkai Girl, I really feel that it ending at 11 episodes was way too soon. Or more likely a failing in the pacing from the writer and directer. I feel like they spent A LOT of time driving home the point that Wakaba had a strong, cold, cruel personality. After a few episodes...we got it! They should have gotten busy spending time on how the couple was going to blend and balance. I feel like the end was too rushed.

Also, I loved those kids. Hinata and Pitaro were both so cute! But...What kids talk like that? Having a moment here and there where they spouted a little wisdom in their cute tiny child ways (Out of the mouths of babes!) was sweet and clever. However, when the kids started becoming more wise and more articulate than the adults, the show started to lose me. I couldn't suspend my disbelief enough to grasp or get on board with the fact the adults were completely clueless until, for example: the ever wise Hinata explained the essential elements of love, life and attraction to Wakaba. or Pitaro had to talk to or show his Dad what it meant to declare his feelings.

I really did enjoy a lot of moments in this drama. I have never seen the dynamic (mentioned about) explored in a drama and for that I thought this show was pretty cool. Again, I only wish it had been given more time to come to a more satisfying conclusion.
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Kawaikochan
Juniko wrote: So, in zenkai girl, cast as the selfish jerk who slowly see the light thanks to love....


I think my main problem with the story is that she doesn't slowly see the light thanks to love. It's more sudden than I would like. The writers expected me to come to her side more quickly than I could. Like boutux, episode 8 had a huge impression on me. Until that episode I was full prepared for her to make a turn around. I think with time, her character could have been redeemed in my eyes, but it was nearly impossible to go from the depths she went to in episode 8 to where she ended up in episode 11. She didn't even start really changing until episode 10. It just feels like the writers quickly thought---"we can't have the female lead say like this, we better hurry up and make her likeable"
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boutux
that mature talk of the children that u didn't quite buy as realistic i found was totally cute. adults seem to have a way of making things more complicated than they need to be and children are more simple and straight forward. children see things and say it with out censors (just remember that oldie goldie show kids say the darnedest things). that's how i saw pitaro and hinata's sage advice to sota and wakaba. what the adults didn't want to see or were denying to themselves the kids would just point out. and it was cute. hinata was very rude and outspoken to wakaba in the beginning kinda like a mini wakaba but that was only cuz of past experiences with nannies and her mom not being around.

as for the pacing i kinda agree with u. i kinda felt they spent 8 epis trying to make her look bad and then the last 3 epis to show that she can be nice sometimes. the last epi was a lil unsettling for me where the pacing is concerned. ...
...
**Spoiler soyoko just giving up, shindo leaving, wakaba confessing and proposing and what happens in the future.......... END OF SPOILER**

... the pacing of all of that in the final epi just seemed off even though i enjoyed it and i like a happy ending. i'm was kinda hoping we get a season 2 and then get to learn how all these things would turn out. but i guess there can still be a 2nd season with such complex and dynamic characters and relationships in this drama.
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mean19
I just finnished watching this wonderful dorama. And I have only one question. Does anyone know if Wakaba's father is mentally ill? It's not a joke or anything.. I just have this doubt. The story didn't explore that, and I'd like to know if someone have any clue.
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Kawaikochan
Re: her father

Possible spoiler below (in white):

he seemed like he had mental development issues to me, but i'm not sure if that is how he would come across to a japanese audience.
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jenna
Kawaikochan wrote: Re: her father

Possible spoiler below (in white):

he seemed like he had mental development issues to me, but i'm not sure if that is how he would come across to a japanese audience.


yup same here...
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