@Jeanie: Matsumoto Jun is one of my fave Japanese celebs, but I rolled till I'm tearing up a tad XD I can't disagree with you, I really can't. And yeah, it does pretty much boil down to taste. And omg life would be so boring if we all agreed D:
@Sleepy: -nods- Yeah, those would really be all my feelings as well^^ I like Jaejoong and KHJ, I somewhat like Jang Geuk Suk (I would like more if he would cut and dye his ahjumma hair >.< ), but as to why they are SO popular above others? I'm at sea~
@Sleepy: -nods- Yeah, those would really be all my feelings as well^^ I like Jaejoong and KHJ, I somewhat like Jang Geuk Suk (I would like more if he would cut and dye his ahjumma hair >.< ), but as to why they are SO popular above others? I'm at sea~
gooseberry wrote: @Jeanie: Matsumoto Jun is one of my fave Japanese celebs, but I rolled till I'm tearing up a tad XD I can't disagree with you, I really can't. And yeah, it does pretty much boil down to taste. And omg life would be so boring if we all agreed D:
@Sleepy: -nods- Yeah, those would really be all my feelings as well^^ I like Jaejoong and KHJ, I somewhat like Jang Geuk Suk (I would like more if he would cut and dye his ahjumma hair >.< ), but as to why they are SO popular above others? I'm at sea~
Glad I made you laugh. But seriously... I want you to know that I "tout" City Hall all the time. consider me one of it's top touters. It is a GREAT and very well written love story. Well balanced against the politics and also has very clever comedy peppered all through. I love it.
Me Too Flower was so special that even those few episodes in the latter third of the dramas run couldn't kill my fondness. I remember it lovingly in spite of "Scheming Evil Pants Witchiepoo."
Jeaniessi wrote: Glad I made you laugh. But seriously... I want you to know that I "tout" City Hall all the time. consider me one of it's top touters. It is a GREAT and very well written love story. Well balanced against the politics and also has very clever comedy peppered all through. I love it.
Me Too Flower was so special that even those few episodes in the latter third of the dramas run couldn't kill my fondness. I remember it lovingly in spite of "Scheming Evil Pants Witchiepoo."
Yay ;_; Yeah, I finally got around to watching it because it seemed to have a small but strong cultish following. So thanks to such touters as you! I remember Me Too Flower and it's kiss scenes that you feel down to your toes x3 Special is definitely a word I would use to describe Me Too Flower<3 Ah, I suddenly have the urge to rewatch. It's probably for the best that I watched the more popular earlier on in my drama viewing adventure. I was able to enjoy them at the time through rose-tint and can remember fondly, but now I can appreciate others even more than I would have.
Wow, an hour break from the computer and so many interesting posts and points of view to quote.
@Thank you gooseberry for your very insightful explanation. Disagreeing is fun, all the more so when good points are raised. You gave me food for thought. ;)
@Sleepy, dear, I didn't want you to go into a frenzy just because I decided to compare two dramas you love, LOL. Of course, if you are dying to watch them both again, who am I to stop you? To trigger your memory though, I could add that the most memorable (and profound) line in MGIAG is "hoi hoi!". Enough said. LOL ;)
@Jeanie, unfortunately for us all, the authors who wrote Coffee Prince never united again for another script. I remember at the time of watching it the first time, I researched like crazy in the hope of finding something similar, that kind of alchemy which is found so rarely. But, alas. It wasn't meant to be.
@CheerfulSoul: I can't really contradict you. Rom-coms are not my favourite genre in general. I love to laugh and I abide to the very classical rule of theatre which requires respite from tragedy and respite from comedy in a well balanced equilibrium, but I can't stand fluff when it's the substance of a script and I can't stand humour all based upon people making fool of themselves.
So, you're right, I'm not a lover of the average rom-com. :)
@Thank you gooseberry for your very insightful explanation. Disagreeing is fun, all the more so when good points are raised. You gave me food for thought. ;)
@Sleepy, dear, I didn't want you to go into a frenzy just because I decided to compare two dramas you love, LOL. Of course, if you are dying to watch them both again, who am I to stop you? To trigger your memory though, I could add that the most memorable (and profound) line in MGIAG is "hoi hoi!". Enough said. LOL ;)
@Jeanie, unfortunately for us all, the authors who wrote Coffee Prince never united again for another script. I remember at the time of watching it the first time, I researched like crazy in the hope of finding something similar, that kind of alchemy which is found so rarely. But, alas. It wasn't meant to be.
@CheerfulSoul: I can't really contradict you. Rom-coms are not my favourite genre in general. I love to laugh and I abide to the very classical rule of theatre which requires respite from tragedy and respite from comedy in a well balanced equilibrium, but I can't stand fluff when it's the substance of a script and I can't stand humour all based upon people making fool of themselves.
So, you're right, I'm not a lover of the average rom-com. :)
amrita828 wrote: Wow, an hour break from the computer and so many interesting posts and points of view to quote.
@Thank you gooseberry for your very insightful explanation. Disagreeing is fun, all the more so when good points are raised. You gave me food for thought. ;)
@Sleepy, dear, I didn't want you to go into a frenzy just because I decided to compare two dramas you love, LOL. Of course, if you are dying to watch them both again, who am I to stop you? To trigger your memory though, I could add that the most memorable (and profound) line in MGIAG is "hoi hoi!". Enough said. LOL ;)
lol I do remember the Hoi Hoi scene. I was trying to trigger it by recalling which scenes i could think of. that scene popped into my head. So did the very emotional scene on the boat. **When she started to cry and then it was raining. That was a very good scene in my opinion. I am in love with that song. Fox Rain. It's a really good song.** And I can remember the scenes with the Director and the aunt. I also remember feeling a bit annoyed with No Min Woo's character. All a part of how the character was supposed to be and I guess him being like that was necessary. (still found him annoying at times though)
Lol This gives me the excuse to re-watch them though. :D
I totally agree with you about the first boat/rain scene. That was truly touching and beautifully executed.
The aunt is impossible to forget, unfortunately. While I could have accepted a little slapstick humour here and there, it started to be repeated to exhaustion and after the 10th supposedly funny scene I could have screamed.
However, good re-watch, LOL! :D
The aunt is impossible to forget, unfortunately. While I could have accepted a little slapstick humour here and there, it started to be repeated to exhaustion and after the 10th supposedly funny scene I could have screamed.
However, good re-watch, LOL! :D
this is a really interesting debate for me as writer.
one genre of literature that i've studied across centuries is that which we modern folk call "fantasy". i've read fantasy that was writen a thousand years ago and novels that just hit the stories yesterday. though the syntax may have changed, you see the same themes, the same rythyms the same characters, all seen through the lens of their respective authors. one of my favorite contemporary fantasy authors went so far as to make a list of things you needed for a good fantasy novel. when you read beowulf, the book of wonder, lord of the rings and the Belgariad you feel the thread connecting all of them though the are seperated by oceans and centuries.
why do we love to hear the same stories over and over again? because no matter how much out world changes humans are still humans and the same things that made out blood boil and our hearts flutter 1,000 years ago have the same effect today, no matter how many times we hear the stories.
when ever i talk to young writers or people who are just starting one thing i always say is this: there is no story that hasnt been told. there are only stories that have never been told by YOU. you are not going to create a compltely original peice so dont try. all you can do is try to tell that story your way.
The hong sisters tell the stories their way. i think their work is repetatvie as hell. i dont like all of thier work, even the ones i like i have issues with. however i am aware of how hard it is to make a living writing. the JK Rowlings and steven kings of the world are rare. most published authors can not live off their writing. if i were to be published and the publisher asked me to put out ten more of the same thing only a little different and offered me a butt load of money to do it, you bet your arse i would. b/c i'd know if i played my cards right and pumped out the repetative crap i'd get my chance to do the work i really wanted to do. and maybe this is the work they really want to do. i know i am guilty of self indulgence in my work. maybe it's not shakespere but some times it's just fun for me to write it! good for them they get to do what they love for a living.
Sleepninja wrote: I just messaged Nina and C4U. I'm hoping they can help trigger my memory. T-T
@gooseberry I like JaeJoong, but not overly so. I love DBSK and JYJ, which means I love all of the members.
Jang Geun Suk......ack IDK Sometimes I like him, most of the times he just amuses me with his offness.
KHJ He's a talented singer, but I would not call myself a fan. I don't really listen to his solo works and I don't follow his dramas. (Meaning: If I'm watching a drama he's in, it's not because he's in it). lol I don't dislike him, I just don't feel anything at all in regards to him. I do love SS501 though. :D
Just got here and read through all the posts (ALL) so I didnt get a chance to read the mail sorry sleepy... but I think I have an idea -since I read Rita's reply -of what you asked me on that mail lol.
amrita828 wrote: I totally agree with you about the first boat/rain scene. That was truly touching and beautifully executed.
The aunt is impossible to forget, unfortunately. While I could have accepted a little slapstick humour here and there, it started to be repeated to exhaustion and after the 10th supposedly funny scene I could have screamed.
However, good re-watch, LOL! :D
Rita-chan! I have to respect you (more than I already do) for opening this thread. So... my respects.
Out of the Hong sister's dramas I have watched I only liked, fully, one drama. And that was Couple or Trouble. I think the main reason why I liked it, was because it was based on a movie so the plot was kinda easy to twist and turn as the main message was already there. Same reason why I was enthusiastic of Big, however, there was a part on one of the early episodes that made me drop my mouth and in a bad way. So I was disappointed that it had ended the episode with such a stupid cliche to later learn -from my cousin who did watch till the end -that it was all a trick of the character and it was not really what had happened, so I though: why would they finish the episode with a cliff hanger like that one (which is such a stupid cliche) and make the viewer think the story is in going in that direction when it really wasnt?? You know what happened? One of the very happy viewers dropped it at that moment. So... is it badly written? I cannot really say to a full extent that ALL their dramas are badly written, but I can say that they do have silly plots which without any over the top cliches, would have been otherwise fairly enjoyable.
My Girlfriend is A Gumiho was a cute drama, I enjoyed it for what it was, not to actually make me think or go into philosophical trances, but I did enjoy the music and Shin Mi Na. I have seen her in other stuff, and she is not that bad as an actress as others I have seen more often in dramas.
I don't actually recall any lines from Big (I only watched 4 or 5 episodes) But I remember that what I really liked about it was the fact that, although she is the teacher and supposedly the adult in the relationship, she was in fact the child and naive one. And the message that young people can be as wise as some adults was something that I could relate to, as I am always looked down on at work because I happen to be the youngest one there. All are men of 50 up, and just one woman that is in her 40s, so I'm treated as a baby and I hate it. Aside from that, the drama did fail in that one episode I already mentioned. So... I dropped it!
Couple or Trouble remains my favorite of the Hong sisters, and it is not a 10 rating either way.
There will always be writers like Stieg Larsson, to prove that you don't have to write a Harry Potter or be a Stephen King to be popular (not that I dont enjoy Harry Potter or Stephen's books. I love them) But Stieg is one of the most mentioned writers of contemporary literature. Whose books of the Millennium Series gain fame as quickly as you can blink, and has forever given the world one of the most memorable female leads in literature. That is, Lisbeth Salander. Thanks to him for not writing what was trendy, but for following his heart!
You're Beautiful and My Girl are not AMAZING dramas, and I'm currently watching My GF is a Gumiho, so I can't really say much on that, but I have to say, give Hong Gil Dong another chance.
With every single person I've ever made watch it, they looked at me like I was some insane person for basically the entire first episode- but after that, it becomes SIGNIFICANTLY less Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, and develops into a really memorable drama- it's actually near my all time favourite, up there with Iljimae and City Hunter.
Honestly, it isn't a drama you can judge with the first episode.
But about the shallowness of some other Hong sisters dramas- I'll have to agree...
I'm always split between the need to quote you all and the need to economize... the first has to prevail, I say. ;) However, I'll split my post, or this is going to become a monster.
I love it when a debate deviates from its premises and explore other aspects of the issue. I am not a writer, but I definitely am a reader and literature is my field of specialization, so I can very well relate to everything you wrote. :)
I deal with romances every single day of my life due to my job. I'm so immersed in them I sometimes wonder how can I still be fascinated by stories focusing on love. As a matter of fact, when I'm in real need of a break, I read an essay, a classic on philosophy or do the math. And it is undeniable that, like gooseberry pointed out, we grow more and more fastidious and critic. This being said, the reason why some stories manage to capture our heart no matter how many times the same plot has been told, is their style. Music relies on 7 pitch notes only, and yet we still get new combinations after millennia of musical history.
I'm not bothered by the non-originality of a plot. The same exact scene of a kiss has got so many ways of being told it's amazing. But this is also why I don't like it when authors - in this case scriptwriters - make a fool of their readers/viewers by fobbing us with always the same stylistic pattern, and create characters which are in substance always the same with different names. I am aware that in such a competitive world, one has to stick to what works in order to survive, but it is not an excuse for shallow lines or love declarations which have been heard a hundred times, about stars shining bright and you'll forever be in my heart and I love you so much my heart burst and bla bla.
Frankly, I wouldn't care so much if those dramas weren't so popular. Constantly raving about them sets an example: the public wants fan-service? Let's give them fan-service. They just want to watch an eye-candy who barely moves a muscle? Here you are, enjoy!
When I see a drama like You're Beautiful being given a 10 for the acting, I can't sit still. And I can't shut up (you wish! ;)) when a script full of inconsistencies, absurdities, lack of characterization, childish lines is compared in quality to the work of some other author who struggles to survive too!
*ok, rita, breathe... breathe... LOL
cityhunter83 wrote: this is a really interesting debate for me as writer.
...though the syntax may have changed, you see the same themes, the same rythyms the same characters, all seen through the lens of their respective authors...
why do we love to hear the same stories over and over again? because no matter how much out world changes humans are still humans and the same things that made out blood boil and our hearts flutter 1,000 years ago have the same effect today, no matter how many times we hear the stories.
when ever i talk to young writers or people who are just starting one thing i always say is this: there is no story that hasnt been told. there are only stories that have never been told by YOU. you are not going to create a compltely original peice so dont try. all you can do is try to tell that story your way.
The hong sisters tell the stories their way. i think their work is repetatvie as hell. i dont like all of thier work, even the ones i like i have issues with. however i am aware of how hard it is to make a living writing...
I love it when a debate deviates from its premises and explore other aspects of the issue. I am not a writer, but I definitely am a reader and literature is my field of specialization, so I can very well relate to everything you wrote. :)
I deal with romances every single day of my life due to my job. I'm so immersed in them I sometimes wonder how can I still be fascinated by stories focusing on love. As a matter of fact, when I'm in real need of a break, I read an essay, a classic on philosophy or do the math. And it is undeniable that, like gooseberry pointed out, we grow more and more fastidious and critic. This being said, the reason why some stories manage to capture our heart no matter how many times the same plot has been told, is their style. Music relies on 7 pitch notes only, and yet we still get new combinations after millennia of musical history.
I'm not bothered by the non-originality of a plot. The same exact scene of a kiss has got so many ways of being told it's amazing. But this is also why I don't like it when authors - in this case scriptwriters - make a fool of their readers/viewers by fobbing us with always the same stylistic pattern, and create characters which are in substance always the same with different names. I am aware that in such a competitive world, one has to stick to what works in order to survive, but it is not an excuse for shallow lines or love declarations which have been heard a hundred times, about stars shining bright and you'll forever be in my heart and I love you so much my heart burst and bla bla.
Frankly, I wouldn't care so much if those dramas weren't so popular. Constantly raving about them sets an example: the public wants fan-service? Let's give them fan-service. They just want to watch an eye-candy who barely moves a muscle? Here you are, enjoy!
When I see a drama like You're Beautiful being given a 10 for the acting, I can't sit still. And I can't shut up (you wish! ;)) when a script full of inconsistencies, absurdities, lack of characterization, childish lines is compared in quality to the work of some other author who struggles to survive too!
*ok, rita, breathe... breathe... LOL
@Nina. My dear friend, I remember you complaining about that scene. You are the reason why I tried to watch Big: when people we trust the judgment of are enthusiastic about something, there must be a good reason. As you know, I dropped it after 15 minutes. The reason is quite simple - and in line with my overly fastidious taste: the heroine. A couple of things are clear from the very beginning:
1. She doesn't have female friends. Friendship among women is an impossible scenario in the Hong sisters dramas. Following a century old prejudice which describe women as too petty creatures to form true bond among one another, they are always gossips, envious beings who try to steal their rival job, man, success.
2. She's supposed to be a teacher and yet she has the brain of a 12 year old.
3. In her job she's not recognized and is humiliated by the school director - another female - who introduces a new student with these words: "he's very handsome". Really? Is this a requirement?
Gaaaaah.
P.S. raises her hand she who wasn't hooked on the first episode just because of Gong Yoo waking up in a morgue half naked. ;)
@Emily: I have to confess my worst shortcoming: I don't like period dramas. No matter how hard I try, I don't. I love period movies, so it's even more unexplicable to me, but as soon as I see a drama is set further back than, say, 100 years, I leave it be. I know HGD is a fusion saeguk, but it doesn't help either. Perhaps one day I'll be able to overcome my own prejudice - because that's what it is - watch and enjoy Joseon, but right now I'd rather stay away. :)
1. She doesn't have female friends. Friendship among women is an impossible scenario in the Hong sisters dramas. Following a century old prejudice which describe women as too petty creatures to form true bond among one another, they are always gossips, envious beings who try to steal their rival job, man, success.
2. She's supposed to be a teacher and yet she has the brain of a 12 year old.
3. In her job she's not recognized and is humiliated by the school director - another female - who introduces a new student with these words: "he's very handsome". Really? Is this a requirement?
Gaaaaah.
P.S. raises her hand she who wasn't hooked on the first episode just because of Gong Yoo waking up in a morgue half naked. ;)
@Emily: I have to confess my worst shortcoming: I don't like period dramas. No matter how hard I try, I don't. I love period movies, so it's even more unexplicable to me, but as soon as I see a drama is set further back than, say, 100 years, I leave it be. I know HGD is a fusion saeguk, but it doesn't help either. Perhaps one day I'll be able to overcome my own prejudice - because that's what it is - watch and enjoy Joseon, but right now I'd rather stay away. :)
cityhunter83 wrote: this is a really interesting debate for me as writer.
one genre of literature that i've studied across centuries is that which we modern folk call "fantasy". i've read fantasy that was writen a thousand years ago and novels that just hit the stories yesterday. though the syntax may have changed, you see the same themes, the same rythyms the same characters, all seen through the lens of their respective authors. one of my favorite contemporary fantasy authors went so far as to make a list of things you needed for a good fantasy novel. when you read beowulf, the book of wonder, lord of the rings and the Belgariad you feel the thread connecting all of them though the are seperated by oceans and centuries.
why do we love to hear the same stories over and over again? because no matter how much out world changes humans are still humans and the same things that made out blood boil and our hearts flutter 1,000 years ago have the same effect today, no matter how many times we hear the stories.
when ever i talk to young writers or people who are just starting one thing i always say is this: there is no story that hasnt been told. there are only stories that have never been told by YOU. you are not going to create a compltely original peice so dont try. all you can do is try to tell that story your way.
The hong sisters tell the stories their way. i think their work is repetatvie as hell. i dont like all of thier work, even the ones i like i have issues with. however i am aware of how hard it is to make a living writing. the JK Rowlings and steven kings of the world are rare. most published authors can not live off their writing. if i were to be published and the publisher asked me to put out ten more of the same thing only a little different and offered me a butt load of money to do it, you bet your arse i would. b/c i'd know if i played my cards right and pumped out the repetative crap i'd get my chance to do the work i really wanted to do. and maybe this is the work they really want to do. i know i am guilty of self indulgence in my work. maybe it's not shakespere but some times it's just fun for me to write it! good for them they get to do what they love for a living.
What city said really sums up with my thought as well. Everyone have a fantasy of their own and no matter who i feel a general fantasy of a girl is to be picked up by a prince charming, and thats exactly what they are doing, giving us what we dream about. And i know it gets annoying seeing stupid girl characters but really dont think they are all that bad. Theres a couple with girl traits that was extremely annoying but in the ones that i watch the girls are mainly naive, innocent and just dont really have a clue. Yes i know the girl character may seem alittle unrealistic but sometimes i just cant help but relate myself to the girls in their show. When it comes to guys i seriously have no clue what to do, and even tho i'm 23 i still do things that makes me think i'm just 5 (no matter how old someone gets, there well always be times when you act like a kid).
the thing about any creative endeavor is that it's all subjective. most TV watchers are looking for one thing: to be entertained. if they are entertianed they dont care if they are moved, if they had to think about anyhting or if the characters are realistic. in fact, sometimes the less real it is the better. i'm sure i've said before if i wanted to see how real people would do it i wouldnt be wathcing TV i would go sit at the mall and people watch ( which i used to do, it's enlightening. you (general) should try it some time) the avg. Tv watcher wants to be transported AWAY from reality. which is probably why the HS brand of RC hit does so well. it's pretty far from reality.
and most TV watchers (no offense to anyone) arent exactly literature majors. they dont understand the beauty of characterization that goes beyond people simply stating what a person is like (one of my BIGGEST complaints about HS dramas. instead of showing us what a person is like you just have multiple people describe the personality.) they dont understand character foils or the allure of an anti hero (that's why everyone gooed all over Kang To even when he was a d-bag.) they simply want to be entertained. this is why crap like twilight and Anita Blake is popular. it doesnt have to be genius to entertain most people.
the hong sisters arent shakespere, they never will be. they will never put out ANYTHING intellectual or deeply moving. it's not their thing.
i am by no means saying the HS work is all dribble meant for the uneducated. i read shakespere- for FUN- and i enjoyed My Girl, YAB, HGD, GL and i even enjoyed parts of Big.
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