Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 liddi:

You're welcome! I am beginning to agree with Tong Hua that Once Promised is definitely a tragedy, compared to LYF.

 Sssnoopyyy:

I mean isn’t the this drama supposed to have a melancholy theme? It is 长想思 not a typical HE fairytale story.

I always felt that the Qing Shui Town arc had some prototypical romantic comedy vibes to it. After QST, 长相思 morphed into a full-blown (non)tragedy. I read an interesting article that had this to say:

最后说说山经海纪系列，这个系列开始于2009年，创作理念包含对真相假象的思索。在2011年左右，桐华说过这个系列包括三部小说，曾许诺、千方相和长相思。也表示过，这个系列的最后一部是喜剧，“不喜剧，没道理”。所以也许，我猜本来长相思最后她准备安排成喜剧的，但是没有操作。
Finally, let's talk about the Shan Jing Hai Ji series. This series started in 2009, and the creative concept includes thinking about the truth and illusion. Around 2011, Tong Hua said that this series includes three novels, Once Promiced, Qian Fang Xiang and Lost You Forever. She also said that the last one in this series is a comedy, "It doesn't make sense if it's not a comedy." So maybe, I guess she originally planned to make Lost You Forever a comedy at the end, but it didn't work.

[source]

In the end, 长相思 is not a typical HE fairy tale, it is not a typical heart-wrenching tragedy either. It is something much more than that. It uses very sophisticated literary techniques, which were very difficult to adapt into a drama. Three professional screenwriters were tasked with adapting the novel before Tong Hua, but they all failed to grasp Tong Hua's intent well enough. One of the producers said this is because Tong Hua writes one point, but leaves nine points blank. There is a lot of complicated inference one has to do--both in the novel and in the drama in order to grasp Tong Hua's true intent.

[source]

 liddi:

Actually, it was not Nuo Nai but Shao Hao who had decided that he himself would later compensate Bing Yue by taking her as his concubine.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

 liddi:

That being said, I never felt that knowledge made any difference in their relationship at all. Regardless of whether she was the Gao Xin princess or Chi Chen's daughter, ultimately the unchanging fact was she remained Cang Xuan's cousin and the Yellow Emperor's granddaughter, which meant she was still on opposing sides with him either way.

I think it's possible that XL knowing XY was Chi Chen's daughter made a difference in the path of their relationship. Knowing her parentage gives him some additional things to consider:

1. He knew the ending of A Heng and Chi Chen, who fought on opposing sides. Him knowing that they were also lovers might have forced him to really evaluate his future with Xiao Yao.
2. He would know that XY was targeted for assassination because she was Chi Chen's daughter. If he pursued an open relationship with XY, would people who hated him also have a reason to target her? Perhaps he could protect her while he was alive, but he had always known that he would eventually leave his life on the battlefield. After he was gone, XY's life would certainly be in more danger if their relationship were known to the world.

We see evidence of XL proactively pushing XY away after 37 years under the sea. If XL found out XY's true parentage during this time, I believe it could have been a factor in either his deciding to push her away, or at least strengthening his resolve to actually start push her away (if he had already decided to push XY away before 37 years under the sea).

 Sssnoopyyy:

I think the leaked script for ep 20 must be made up of more than one episode since there is quite a bit to get through and will end at the scene where CX and AN visit QS town (honestly not sure why they would end it off like this, they gave AN a bigger role than necessary).

Tong Hua borrowed the concept of shadow writing (影写法) from A Dream of Red Mansions. It is a technique where minor characters are used to give insight into the intentions, motivations, and even fate of the main character they shadow. It is one of the most important literary techniques Tong Hua uses in 长相思. A Nian is Xiang Liu's primary shadow character.

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=3043773&page=584#p3043773

So when A Nian gives Xiao Yao the laughing doll and says:

阿念:(嘱托)姐姐，带着这个娃娃， 一起畅游天下，(克制难过)把......(轻)我• ...缺的那一 份一起补上。
A Nian (earnestly): Sister, take this doll and explore the world with it. (Suppressing sadness) Make up for the part of me that's missing.

This is essentially how Xiang Liu feels. XL wants XY to live well and make up for what he is missing.

 blabla100:

I don't remember, was this scene from s2's trailer been in the drama yet? 

photo save app

No. This should be the scene when their relationship was severed, after Xiang Liu forced Xiao Yao to give him her blood,

 Kokuto:

Because my take on it was that Jing confronted FFYY to get her confession against Tushan (lower than pond scum) Hou.  And he tried to use her kid to force the confession, cause he brought up the kid first.  It was after Jing mentioned her kid, that she made the offer to willingly sacrifice herself for the safety of her son.  It was a scummy move all around, but in conjunction with the easy sentence of banishment that Pond Scum Hou got, it was awful.

I didn't get the impression that Jing was trying to get Yi Ying to implicate Hou. Rather, I felt that he wanted to know why she did not even try to defend herself, and just allowed Hou to put all the blame on her, which earned him a slap on the wrist while condemning her to torture and eventually death. He reminded her of her son, so that she remembered that her child still needed her, but instead, she begged him to look after her son, knowing that the boy would be secure under Jing's protection, offering her essential blood in exchange for it. All this is still within reason and understandable, but what the drama surprisingly had Jing do was accept her sacrifice immediately without even a protest. The thing is that since Jing actually cared for the boy, it should not even have been used as a deal between Yi Ying and himself to begin with. In the novel, Jing actually promised to look after Tian "until she could take care of the boy again", without any deals being made, because he really did love the boy. Here, the deal just leaves a bad aftertaste, especially since Hou was so easily let off. 

 Kokuto:

It was a weird scene, because I don't understand why he was even there or would care, cause of course, he basically tossed it all to someone else (the elders) to make the decisions -- unless he wanted Hou to pay his fair share.

True. It certainly didn't paint him in a flattering light, and either made him appear devious and/or callous. The drama should have stuck with how the events played out in the novel. 

I thought he was pretty good with Tian, and the boy certainly loved him - the scene where he gently rebuked the boy for threatening his maids and the boy's obedient response indicated as much. His absence seemed more to do with the fact that he avoided being near Yi Ying. 

Incongruity aside, Huang Cancan's portrayal of Yi Ying's desolation in the face of Hou's betrayal was spot on, and for the first time, I felt such pity for this woman who, if not for fate, might have had a happy, contented marriage with Jing. 

 liddi:

When Nuo Nai died, his eyes were still wide open. The dazzling flames that carried the spiritual energy transformed from her life soared to the skies and could be seen from thousands of miles away. Shao Hao, realising who the owner of the spiritual energy of the Shen Nong royal family was, supported Nuo Nai's body up, lifted his head to let his still-open eyes see the fireworks that shot across the sky like fireworks, burning for him.

Oh wow that's... intense.

 liddi:

Just before he knocked her out cold and had A Bi take her away to safety, he told her to raise their son well. She was distraught when she woke up, as they had sworn that they would always be one in their hearts, living and dying together, yet he went back on his word and left her to live on alone.

Although the details are different, this seems to echo some of Chi You's sentiments when he made Ah Heng promise to live on in order to meet XY (and to tell her the truth about her parents) instead of dying with him... with Ah Heng almost breaking that promise very shortly after making it and only keeping it because Chi You's body transformed into petals and then a living forest that comforted her and made her feel that she would not be alone while she lived on and waited for XY. 

 liddi:

You make a good point about Xiang Liu's fear that she would be so devastated that she would choose to end her life and follow him. Xiang Liu always wanted Xiao Yao to continue on living well. He repeated this time and again about life being precious - when they gazed at the moon together, when he made her promise to continue on living even if Jing was dead. How many times had he literally pulled her from the jaws of death - when she passively allowed the the albatross demon to seal her at the bottom of the ocean, and when she tried to kill herself along with Cang Xuan, which indicated that these were very valid concerns for her case.  

I do feel that it is more her abandonment trauma, rather than the pattern from the elders, that made her value her own life that much less. I don't think it was a pattern she saw in the three women from her childhood - no one knew that Yun Sang killed herself because of Nuo Nai, and at the time, she would not have known that her mother lived in a terrible, lonely existence for 400 years, and the only thing that stopped her from following Chi Chen in death was the promise he exacted from her. Chang Pu was an example she was very familiar with, one that brought so much resentment and despair to her son. but she too had seen how it affected Cang Xuan, and she once claimed that she would never abandon her own child if it ever came to that.

As for Shao Hao and Sir Bi's concerns, I always thought it had to do with having to suffer the tragedy of watching the one they loved die or be killed by them because they were on opposing sides. At least, I don't think Sir Bi would have been aware of Xiao Yao's abandonment trauma. Chi Chen and A Heng were ultimately forced to take up arms against each other for their people, in spite of their love for one another. While Xiao Yao may not necessarily go on the battlefield, she would have had to suffer the knowledge that her loved one killed those she loved, and vice versa. It was an impossible situation that none could escape from because of their opposing loyalties.

Ah, to clarify, I didn't mean that I thought that XY would be more likely to potentially decide to join XL in death if he were to die on the battlefield if their relationship had been different (e.g., if they had both openly acknowledged their feelings and XL had not pushed her away) because she saw that pattern with Ah Heng, Chang Pu and Yun Sang and might follow in their footsteps, or that XL might have acted as he did in order to prevent XY from specifically following in their footsteps. As you mentioned, XY would not have had all the details necessary to observe that pattern. And even if she had, XL likely wouldn't know about XY's knowledge of those details. And even if XY had the necessary details and XL knew of her knowledge, it seems like a bit of a stretch to think that a character would choose to die in order to be with the person they loved after that person died on the battlefield because they first observed other women making that same choice.

I meant it on a more meta level. Basically: readers of Once Promised would be aware of the pattern that played out for the main female characters in that book and might anticipate that XY, as the main female character of LYF, might follow the same path as those characters for the same reasons in LYF if XL had acted differently. If they didn't think of it on their own without prompting, readers might think of it when Shao Hao or Sir Bi voiced their concerns / expressed their preference for XY to want TSJ rather than XL. In-universe, Shao Hao or Sir Bi's concerns might not have been influenced by the pattern from Once Promised. They might have only arisen out of a desire for XY to not experience the pain of loving someone who was her family's enemy, which seemed to be the Yellow Emperor's only concern. But they both mentioned Ah Heng rather than CX (whereas the Yellow Emperor was more focused on CX), which I think might act as a reminder to readers of the choice that Ah Heng nearly made?

 liddi:

The dissolution of Nuo Nai's engagement was not done by himself, but Shao Hao who secretly arranged for it to be done

Very interesting! 

Did he consult Nuo Nai first? Or did he just act on his own without informing Nuo Nai?

 liddi:

I won't say that his ending made me dislike him less, but it drives home again the spirit that burnt in the hearts of the Shen Nong patriots who would rather die than surrender. His words about the ties of family bloodlines - the roots that define who they were, roots that were not for sale at any cost - help us understand better why Hong Jiang and the remnant army continued to fight for a homeland that was long lost.

 liddi:

How can a despicable man like the Yellow Emperor understand the ties of family bloodlines. These are the roots of every generation, but he came to negotiate with me about which ministerial position could buy my only roots. I really wanted to totally incinerate him, let him understand that not everything in the world could be bought!

 liddi:

Feng Bo's subordinate, Chi whispered, "Who would have thought that the widely respected Luo Jia would surrender to the Yellow Emperor, while Yan Zhuan who was cursed as a despicable person would rather die than surrender."

Yu Shi looked towards the Southeast without a word, but took off his felt hat. No matter how lowly or humble  a person was, he still had his own dignity; no matter how despicable and shameless a person was, he still had his own honour!

That's something I suppose. 

It feels like one of the themes of these novels is a question that comes up again and again, in different contexts, about... is it ever right to compromise on one's principles? If, at any point or for any reason, you would be willing to compromise on your principles, does that mean you never really had integrity to begin with and that you are actually an unprincipled and dishonourable person? Or is there a point where sticking to your principles no matter what doesn't make you honourable, but instead just makes you a senseless person... and in some cases a person who has caused unnecessary harm to themselves and perhaps even to others due to their obstinance?

 liddi:

After the flooding of Ze Province and Yun Sang's marriage, the Yellow Emperor sent Zhong Yi to attack Yan Zhuan, hoping to secure his surrender.

So Yun Sang's political marriage did nothing for Shengnong? Everything about her story is so tragic!

 liddi:

The Yellow Emperor sent forces to attack Ze Province after receiving no word about the proposed marriage alliance between Yun Sang and Qing Yang. What actually happened was that both Yi Peng and Luo Jia (Hou Tu) worked together to stop the marriage from happening - Yi Peng wanted to check Qing Yang (and by extension Xie Zu and her other children)'s power; Luo Jia's opposition should be predominantly due to his love for Yun Sang and the belief that the sovereignty of Shen Nong could still be protected. Yi Peng promised that if Luo Jia could detain Yun Sang for 10 days, he would be able to convince the Yellow Emperor to withdraw the proposed marriage alliance. In the end, she managed to escape and announce her acceptance

 liddi:

Yun Sang was always spied on, and felt that she was an outsider particularly as the war continued to rage between those in Shen Nong who refused to surrender.

Ah, so her marriage did still have an impact, maybe? But since she was delayed she wasn't able to save Zhu Rong or his army? And whatever impact it had, it didn't stop the war from proceeding?

What were the terms of her marriage? It seems that the eigth Flame Emperor had been killed by that point and he didn't have an heir. So was Yun Sang agreeing to marry Qing Yang basically her agreeing on behalf of a leader-less Shengong to surrender to Xuan Yuan, but most of the Shengnong army that remained (led by Gong Gong and Chi You?) refused to accept that surrender and kept on fighting, as they had vowed to never surrender?

 liddi:

Luo Jia’s body came to an abrupt stop in the centre of the hall, his face ashen, staring fixedly at Yun Sang. Why? Why can’t you believe that I can protect Shen Nong Mountain? Why can’t you believe that I can safeguard the people of Shen Nong? Why won’t you let me give you peace?

 liddi:

From what I see, there were two reasons to his defection. One was for the love of Yun Sang.

 liddi:

The second reason, was to continue to protect the Shen Nong people who now lived as a conquered people. This was the same man who, in spite of his animosity towards Chi Chen, rushed to Ze Province at the threat of the flood, to which Yun Sang described him as "may have been confused in minor matters, but did not lose sight of important values and principles."

Such moral complexity mixed with tragedy. He definitely feels like a Tong Hua character. 

With this context, his choices seem quite similar to Little Zhu Rong's choices. 

It feels like Hou Tu in Once Promised mirrors Little Zhu Rong in LYF a bit (the ones who surrendered in part to keep their people alive and protect their well-being and in part out of love... if Little Zhu Rong did love his cousin / the Chishui clan leader's daughter before he surrendered?)... and Zhu Rong in Once Promised mirrors Gong Gong in LYF a bit (the ones who refused to surrender and fought until death). 

 liddi:

After Yan Zhuan suffered severe casualties from Zhong Yi's sneak attack, he pretended to surrender, but in actuality, set up a formation at Xun Mountain to gather and mobilise underground fire to cause a volcanic eruption, with the intent of luring Zhong Yi and the Yellow Emperor and armies on both sides to certain death. Ultimately, the volcano claimed the lives of the Xuan Yuan and Shen Nong army there, including Zhong Yi

Would this be the same volcano as the one much earlier in Once Promised, where Zhu Rong was causing havoc and Ah Heng went to stop him (accompanied by Chi You), and Chi You ended up quelling the volcano after Ah Heng passed out, but pretended that she had done it?

 liddi:

Mu Jin (the Seventh Flame Emperor's foster daughter)

I am so curious about her! Finding out that she was Hou Tu's childhood playmate is the first detail I've learned about her. 

Thank you for all the translations, summaries and detials you've provided liddi! They are truly appreciated! ^^

 liddi:

True. It certainly didn't paint him in a flattering light, and either made him appear devious and/or callous. The drama should have stuck with how the events played out in the novel. 

I thought he was pretty good with Tian, and the boy certainly loved him - the scene where he gently rebuked the boy for threatening his maids and the boy's obedient response indicated as much. His absence seemed more to do with the fact that he avoided being near Yi Ying. 

Incongruity aside, Huang Cancan's portrayal of Yi Ying's desolation in the face of Hou's betrayal was spot on, and for the first time, I felt such pity for this woman who, if not for fate, might have had a happy, contented marriage with Jing. 

Yes, it certainly does make him look devious and callous.  Especially given he KNOWS Hou's responsibility in the mess, but punishing Hou gains him nothing.  Locking FFYY up and sacrificing her (while telling the world she's sick), frees him from that marriage and allows him to have his fluffy happy hugs and marriage to XY.  "Saving" the kid allows him to become Ye Shi Qi and abandon his clan responsibilities.  It's all very convenient for someone who makes a living off deals.

Yes, she did such a great job with this resolution of this plotline.  I'm sure I will get alot of hate, but I've always been fascinated by her character, and of all the women, except XY, I found FFYY to be the most interesting, independent and strangely non-elitist.

Yes, she had that ball and chain of Tushan Hou, but here was a woman who had the ambition to be the best in both a man's and woman's world.  She worked hard and beat both of her brothers at their family's manly skill of archery and assassination, as well as strategy games.  Granted, FFB wasn't trying hard, but still.  And she clearly was willing to work the social circles to get the status she wanted also, 'befriending' Xin Yue.  Once she set her sights on being one of the Four Great Clan Ladies, with Tushan House, she was relentless and ruthless.  But again, she worked hard for it, winning over Grandma Tushan and helping to run the clan and businesses while Jing was hiding in Qing Shui Town.

And unlike most of her contemporaries, FFYY never punched down.  She wasn't a spoiled brat who treated people of lower status like crap.  You could tell how much she cared for her maid, and vice versa, when she killed herself to save FFYY from Tushan Jing's baited trap.  And she also clearly cared for her child.

Thinking about her now, she strikes me as one of the great medieval queens ... she could have been an interesting match for CX.  Though she'd have to take Xin Yue, or it would be Grandpa Emperor's harem problems all over again.  Sadly, her one great weakness was falling for that pond scum Tushan Hou.  smh

 Kokuto:

LOOK at this gorgeousness of a poster!

More importantly, check out that little scene beneath Lord Xiang Liu.  I don't remember seeing this scene in the drama.  The other posters have recognizable scenes, like poor Feng Long got the wedding robbery.  Could it be ... that we'll have some sop for our wounded hearts???  They even included the red string of fate outfit that he never wore again, after she rejected him.

Saw it this morning - absolutely gorgeous poster indeed!

I love too that he was holding her hand in the seashell and Xiao Yao looked so happy, gazing at him. This is the answer she was hoping he would give her from the gifting of the crystal globe and the 7-day wait by the ocean. Just seeing the poster makes me emotional once more. I share your hope that in some shape or form, we will have some balm for our broken hearts.

 liddi:

Saw it this morning - absolutely gorgeous poster indeed!

I love too that he was holding her hand in the seashell and Xiao Yao looked so happy, gazing at him. This is the answer she was hoping he would give her from the gifting of the crystal globe and the 7-day wait by the ocean. Just seeing the poster makes me emotional once more. I share your hope that in some shape or form, we will have some balm for our broken hearts.

YES!  Everything about this little scene is their happy ending.  At this point, I'm not proud.  I'll take a little dream sequence to help through the ending.