Facts about Psychopathy

I just posted the below in the comment section and completely forgot that there was a thread section, haha. I rarely ever comment or post threads so.... but creating this thread here in case anybody is interested or would like to discuss or ask questions.

COMMENT POST:

I don't know guys, I'm a little conflicted to start watching this drama, haha. I studied clinical psychology and psychopathy is often the target population to embody the bad guys in tv and films because it fits. I get it and it's just entertainment but I wanted to impart some fun facts to those who want to see the difference between TV psychopathy and real psychopathy:

1. Psychopathy is not an official diagnosis. Meaning, you cannot be diagnosed as a psychopath but is considered a disorder that are made up of a set characteristics and/or behaviors that describe particular differences from the general population.

2. If you don't know already, those with psychopathic traits are rarely ever violent and/or become serial killers. In fact, those who do become violent are a minority within this particular population. Most of them live normal lives like the rest of us with jobs, families, and kids. Fun fact, about 20% of CEO's are considered to have psychopathic traits. These individuals can often found in the business world than in any other industry.

3. Psychopathy IS more likely to run through genetic components but individuals can also develop psychopathy through outside environments and factors while growing up at a young age. In other words, psychopathic individuals can be made and not just born.

4. Most psychopaths actually do care and love people who they consider to be their family. They do love their parents, siblings, husband/wives, children and even pets. Unfortunately, people perceive their type of "love and care" as cold and insincere because it doesn't match up with how the rest of people express themselves. They express their love and care in different ways though because of their inability to understand and/or process emotional empathy. It's just VERY different than what most people EXPECT someone to express themselves. They also have a difficult time caring about other people outside their inner circle because they may view it as a waste of time and energy.

5. There is a difference between psychopathy and sociopathy. They are quite similar in a lot of ways though so people use them inter-changeably, but they are different. In short, psychopathy is where one cannot feel emotional empathy but they can still understand emotions (cognitive empathy). For example, they see someone crying and see tears running down their cheeks, they understand that that is sadness and/or grief. Understanding what that person may currently be going through in their life, they connect the dots as to what that person is crying about. They enact a reaction that best fits the situation. Sociopaths on the other hand, do have a LIMITED amount of emotional empathy. So they can feel SOME emotions, like anger, some guilt and possibly emotional empathy. There are varying degrees as to how much emotions they can feel depending on the individual. But in some cases, if they do feel emotional empathy, it can be shallow, fleeting and/or coupled with unemotional analysis.

Hope this was at least a little fun to read! I just wanted to make sure that people don't go around thinking that all psychopaths are murderers and that all psychopaths are horrible people. They are just built differently but it doesn't warrant our prejudice against them if they have not harmed anyone. Also, I think I will watch, just for fun. Happy drama watching all!

 New Sun:

I was gonna make a similar thread myself. Also another thing that bugged me was their discussion on psychopathy gene and how they seem to be able to test it to see if a child would be born a psychopath. That's plain gobshite even for a fiction. And for a series that's aiming for realism, it's rather annoying too.

I completely agree!! The reference towards the MAOA gene was completely unnerving. This gene isn't associated solely with those who have psychopathic characteristics but they portrayed it as if only psychopaths have this gene when in fact there are many people have varying levels of MAOA gene but are not considered to have antisocial personality disorder which house the terms psychopathy and sociopathy. The writer of this drama took something that does exist in real life but blew into proportions that are not based on proven research and stretched the truth to sensationalize the drama plot more. I consider this to be a grave act of misinformation, even though it's just for entertainment purposes. There are still many people who believe what they see and hear on TV and believe it to be absolute fact. Just like with Trump followers who believe whatever FOX news has to say about anything. I watched all of the currently released episodes of Mouse and I have to say that I'm getting more and more agitated by the portrayal of psychopathy. 

 June:

Woah I learned something new from this, I admit that I've been a misinformed about psychopathy such as thinking they can only be born and that you can be diagnosed as one

I don't study psychology but I find such topics relating to it fascinating 

I'm kinda curious but why is it that psychopaths are often portrayed as killers in tv shows and medias and such when most are not like that in reality? What are the reasons/contributions for a psychopath/person with psychopathic traits to become violent ?

I believe that psychopaths are often portrayed as killers or the bad guy because they fit the image of what we imagine a killer to be. Someone void of emotions, void of guilt, and a lack of remorse. These are all, more or less, similar to psychopathic characteristics. Psychopathy is described as an individual who has no emotional empathy, a lack of guilt/shame/remorse. Someone who is manipulative, calculating and plans ten steps ahead. And to also find out that these kinds of people with those traits actually exist in the real world is like a writer's dream come true. To be able to create such a cold and vicious character as the villain and still be able to say, "Hey, these kinds of people exist. But only psychopaths can do such atrocities such as this, so this story is not technically all fiction." Something that is based on fact in the real world can often make a story's plot more interesting because some elements of it are actually real. Kind of like 'The Da Vinci Code'. A lot of the elements in that plot are actually true and do exist but doesn't mean that Mary Magdalene did survive and had Jesus's child. 

But I also think, it's just an easy way to create a villain. If you created a bad guy who was technically normal but still did bad things, you'd have to explain and weave in a whole backstory and create complexity and depth to the character, which is a lot of work. If your bad guy is a psychopath, there's not as much work needed for a backstory. Writers can just say, this character was born this way because they're a psychopath and this is why this character is bad and did bad things. So, it could also be in part of being a lazy writer.

It's difficult for "normal" people to think that someone else who is also "normal" is capable of doing horrible things such as murder, cannibalism, rape, torture, separating body parts, etc. So, a lot of the times people need to find a way to say, this person isn't normal. This person is not like the rest of us because nobody like us would do something like this. There MUST be something wrong with this person. 

Contrary to belief, lots of "normal" people can do these kinds of horrible things but generally, people don't like to think that human beings are capable of doing such acts so a lot of the time, people need to create an excuse. There is always a strong sense of denial from the general public.

As for your second question, what reasons/contributions cause a psychopathic individual turn violent. I believe it's for the same reason for everyone else. The environment and the surrounding people are important to any growing child. Individuals with psychopathic traits can turn violent just as any other person can turn violent. If a child grew up in a violent environment or was abused on a daily basis. Or they were neglected and ignored. Or they were abandoned, sexually assaulted, or abandoned. It can be a number of things that can cause the tipping point for someone to become violent. I don't believe that  having psychopathic traits makes any difference from anyone else who doesn't become violent. Not all serial killers or murderers are psychopaths, and not all psychopaths are killers. 

Although, because individuals with psychopathic tendencies do not carry emotional empathy, they do have a higher likelihood of committing a crime whether it be violent or non-violent crime. But doesn't mean that all psychopaths will eventually commit a crime. They just have a high likelihood to commit a crime than non-psychopaths because of the lack of emotional empathy. To explain the reason for a lack of emotional empathy is because of structural abnormalities in the brain. There is evidence shown through brain scans that a psychopaths brain functions differently than most people's brains. Parts of the brain that are responsible for emotions, guilt and shame do not work properly or don't work at all, which results in developing and exhibiting psychopathic tendencies.

Hope this helped!

thank u for saying this seeing ppl generalize psychopathy was weird.

in a general sense thou (and what i feel the show is going after but should have been more clear on) is the fact that the ppl we consider psychopaths arent just those who lack emotional empathy but ppl who act on their violent tendencies. theres a medical definition of this now, but generally we called ppl who were cruel murderers psychopaths, ppl who didnt feel any remorse for their actions even. that's why i didnt mind their idea of a psychopathy gene at first bc while impossible (thou its just fiction) it was based on the idea that these ppl were incapable of feeling normal emotions. 

in the beginning, i thought and Hoped they'd address the fact that a lack of emotional empathy isnt what makes a person a monster but also environmental factors and their upbringing. like all the serial killers the dr had mentioned all of them had horrible upbringings too, they lived nightmares as children they were bound to turn into monsters themselves. so i really thought they'd do that with this show but now. they're just trying to paint every 'psychopath' as a killer and its getting weird. they're turning it into a witch hunt. 

This thread is gold. Keep the facts coming:-) 

ADOLF HITLER

I thought I'd make another reply to something I noticed in the first episode when they mentioned Hitler. I just re-watched the first episode and saw when one character said that the second World War would've never happened if Hitler was never born. Meaning they are labelling Hitler as a psychopath. 

I don't believe that Hitler was ever a psychopath for a number of reasons:

1. Even if Hitler was a psychopath in life, this was never tested, measured or "diagnosed" as such when he was alive so there is very little to no evidence that this is true. Which it's not. 

2. Yes, Hitler has done some horrible things. And this is the reason why people misunderstand what psychopathy actually is. It's not a label to slap onto people who have only done horrible things because of how psychopathy is described to be. There is the misconception that people who do horrible things MUST be a psychopath which in turn only obscures and twists the term even further to misunderstandings. It's like saying any woman who express great anger and are wrathful are all crazy.

3. It's HIGHLY IMPROBABLE that Hitler was a psychopath because one, there is no correlation or evidence of it and two, he had emotional complexity and was a driven and passionate individual. Albeit, his passions and ambitions were not steered towards good things. 

I would argue that Hitler's dreams and ambitions for a dominant Aryan rule was based on emotions and desires rather than fulfilling a necessity. The whole Nazi era was based upon strong emotional expression derived from Hitler's ideals and perspectives. Though psychopaths can understand emotions it's difficult to express true emotions when you have no emotional empathy. It's that feeling you get when you hear someone saying emotional things but there is no impact behind the words and it feels empty. Hitler's speeches inspired an emotional response from the public to his ideals and views and he was a great public speaker and very animated. 

I will also note that psychopaths are not motivated by hate and don't benefit from hating other people. They often only do things that will benefit them and having a God fearing amount of rage and hate that Hitler had towards Jewish people would not have made sense to a psychopath. Racism is hardly ever found in psychopaths.

 There are a lot of other psychological differences as to why Hitler was not a psychopath but I'll only touch on the emotional part of it because this is what I discussed earlier. This is not the only indication that Hitler was not a psychopath. You can definitely learn more online as to why Hitler was not considered a psychopaths. You'll get a plethora of articles.

4. I believe Hitler to have had malignant narcissistic personality disorder with borderline sociopathic tendencies. He had a severe childhood trauma due to a constant exposure of humiliation, physical abuse, and PTSD most likely from World War I and among other things in his past, causing a great need for an over-inflated ego, severe insecurity and extreme sense of self-preservation of their image. Narcissism is characterized as someone who has a grandiose and infallible sense of self with little compassion towards others and no remorse.

This might also sound familiar to someone we know of today who is often talked about on the news. Donald Trump. Obviously, he had a different upbringing than Hitler but the results are eerily similar. Although, there are still a lot of arguments about whether Trump is a psychopath or just has a severe case of narcissism. Me personally, I believe it's the latter because the evidence seems stronger for that case rather than psychopathy but I do believe that there is enough evidence to make a strong argument for both disorders. 

IMPORTANT NOTE: Please do not base your own understanding of Hitler's diagnosis purely on my opinion that I believe him to have malignant narcissistic personality disorder w/ sociopathic tendencies. There are actually in fact a lot of theories on Hitler's diagnosis from schizophrenia to severe PTSD to  delusional disorder. To be honest, we may never know which theoretical diagnosis is correct or incorrect because Hitler was never clinically tested and/or interviewed by any psychological measure of means. We can only speculate from what was documented, observed and told to us by third parties.

Though there is a likelihood that I could be wrong and Hitler was a psychopath but you also have to consider the facts of what we know psychopaths to be clinically and psychologically. It's like that scenario "one of these things don't belong" and in my opinion psychopathy just doesn't fit as well as some other theoretical disorders.

Hope this was another good read for you guys! 

 Aishwarya Nazre:

I have a question, Daniel in ep3 says psychopaths can trick the polygraph. He says it in ref. to 11yo JaeHoon.He generalized it. Does it hold any truth in reality and scientifically? Since they lack emotional empathy, is it easier for them to lie and pass the polygraph? 

Sooooo, to answer the general question, can psychopaths beat a polygraph? Yes. But, the same applies to any other "normal" person as well. Anyone can beat a polygraph. All you need is a lot of practice and discipline. It's only a matter of normalizing your heart rate, controlling your breathing and perspiration and aligning your body language and facial expressions in a neutral state. As well as maybe manipulating your control answers for good measure. It's difficult but not impossible.

In the beginning of a polygraph test, most times, they'll ask you your name, where you live, what you ate this morning. Boring, simple questions that are easy to answer and most likely to be true.  These are called the control Q&As. They use the results spit out from those questions as a comparison to the afterward results to come when they begin asking the real questions. If the two answers are more or less similar to one another, it would be considered truth. But, if your answer is wildly different than your control answer, then you are most likely lying.

When you lie, you know you're lying and when you know you're lying you will most likely feel fear from the possibility of being caught in telling that lie. In reaction to your fear and stress, signals are then sent to the limbic system to produce and release a hormonal response of adrenaline and cortisol hormones. These hormones will in turn cause your heart rate to spike and cause physical reactions like sweat, spasms, and/or shaking.  

So, yes, it is technically true that psychopaths can beat polygraph tests but they are not the only ones that can do that. Contrary to belief, psychopaths aren't natural liars. They aren't born with the natural ability to lie and manipulate. They are just better at learning how to do it. 

Also, polygraph tests are notorious for giving bad results with false positives. Most forces of justice don't rely on polygraph tests anymore, though some might still utilize them as a tool of extraction for information; to distract a suspect while they focus on their breathing and heart rate, they may not be able to manipulate or concentrate on what they say or control their body. But other than that, they are often not used for their accuracy anymore.

However, I have some serious doubts that an 11 year old is able to have that much control over themselves to beat a polygraph test. Like I said before, psychopaths aren't born liars so whether they are a psychopath or not, is not the issue. Maybe if the child was a little older, perhaps 16 years old, then maaaaaybe I'd consider it to be somewhat possible but 11 years old is very young. Children around that age are still learning self-control over themselves and their impulses. I'd be hard pressed to find an 11 year old child who has the self-control and discipline of a marine veteran. 

Children, even those who might be exhibiting psychopathic traits, are still in development and like all other children, they're figuring out right from wrong, who they are, what they like/don't like, where they belong and fit in the world. I HIGHLY doubt that an 11 year-old child (even if they were born a psychopath) can beat a polygraph. 

 Aishwarya Nazre:

Thanks for clarifying. Although I'm loving the thrill of chasing the killer, as I read up on more facts about psychopathy its kinda pissing me off  how they have exaggerated and misrepresented them (even if it's fiction). Daniel is shown to be a Nobel Prize awardee smh

Yea, I agree. It's really off putting to continue watching this and knowing what I know about this particular subject. But what I don't get is the character Daniel. I mean, did he have to have a Nobel Prize? Couldn't he have just as easily been a well respected professor with years of experience without one? Honestly, I think giving Daniel a Nobel Prize was unnecessary. It has nothing to do with his character, what he does, or contribute to any part of the story whatsoever.