Clarification of how R rated shows work with TV & OTT

 singsfromthesoul:

Agreed! This line of argument has long been pissing me off because of all the implications it carries. Also makes me feel like the western viewers who are defending this view are just western conservatives who were sold the idea that Kdramas were inherently more 'pure' and 'wholesome' (aka, sanitized enough for their views) and now they're mad that people are just people regardless of geographic location. I watched this very good video essay on the idea that Netflix is 'ruining' kdramas, highly recommend! 

None of these people have read a smutty Korean webtoon and it shows.... Imagine judging America based on movies from the 50s without ever considering the Hayes Code.

 allekseu:

On the other hand, dramas and shows for TV are under the strict purview of the KCC (Korea Communications Commission) through the KCSC (Korea Communications Standards Commission)

Another important point is that the KCC was created after a right wing Christian was elected president in Korea. Dramas depicted sex a lot more realistically  before that (tho obviously no nudity on broadcast TV). Things are loosening up but there's still a raging culture war going on in Korea the way there is in the US and most parts of the world.

 singsfromthesoul:

Oof, not the Hays Code ?

Alternatively, imagine watching only Hallmark movies and thinking all American media is like that!

I grew up watching those Christian tv shows like Seventh Heaven and Touched by an Angel. Imagine if I assumed that was all American media! 

I've been so baffled by this big slide into what I was thinking of as a kind of Orientalism.  Growing up in Australia, we've always had pretty diverse shows on free channels. Mainly because Australia couldn't afford to produce much of its own.  Home and Away and Neighbours bear ZERO resemblance to my life ^.^  But yeah if I assumed that shows I grew up on like Monkey Magic and Takeshi's Castle,  were representations of an ENTIRE culture...WOAH!

And the idea that a culture should stay stuck in a single particular time because things are "better back then", is a horrifying kind of gatekeeping Orientalism. 

It's frustrating that people are unaware of and unwilling to address their own internalised biases.  But all of your comments are giving me hope so thankyou for that! ❤️

 Ivy:

Honestly it almost feels racist and bordering on fetish to me? The innocent Asian dramas being corrupt by big bad western ideals.

I'll probably regret getting involved in this topic yet again lol but I think this is oversimplifying the issue. I believe the westernization idea stems partly from there being a contrast, not just in sexual content, but in the overall content, tone, and feel of the dramas airing on Netflix, Disney+, etc, and the ones that don't. Personally I think SK is trying to appeal to their ever-growing western audience, which makes perfect sense to me. Why wouldn't they? It's a smart business move. It's not wrong, it's not evil, it's a natural step towards furthering the future of K-dramas, but the fact is, it is happening. Some people like it, and some people don't (yes, I am one of the ones who don't, but please don't discount my entire comment because of it lol).

To be frank I hate to see the tactful, less is more K-dramas of the past get boiled down simply to censorship laws when I personally believe many of them are that way because of the vision of the creators. Just like it's unfair to say "Oh, Koreans are only making explicit things because they're being corrupted by westerners" it's equally unfair to say, "Koreans only made cleaner dramas because of censorship laws." It's ignoring the individuality of all the many producers, directors, and writers of Korean dramas over the last decades, who all had separate, unique visions for their projects.

And I think it's more a fetish when it applies to Korean people. As I've said many times before elsewhere on MDL, I don't think it ever occurred to me that Korean people aren't just like the rest of humanity when it comes to sex lol. Just like a large portion of the high schoolers in America don't actually have sex with all their classmates at least once as some American teen shows portray, Korean people aren't going to be the innocent, pure characters we see in many K-dramas. Likewise, Korea's explicit movies may not be the best representation of their culture either. I wouldn't presume to know one way or the other. Yes, a country's media is indicative of their cultural ideals, but not necessarily of the average person.

So personally I'd separate the issues of the creeps who actually do fetishize Korean individuals (because I have no doubt that they exist, and it goes without saying how disturbing and wrong that is) and the people who simply enjoy the cleaner, more tactful television they came to love and hope that Korea continues releasing content like that (like myself). I actually got weary of my own television portraying every American as experts in hot sex whose hobbies automatically include having one-night stands in their downtime, so it was refreshing just to see some characters in K-dramas who got to be twenty five years old without ever having dated, since those people do exist IRL.

I have more I could say on this issue but I know my opinion is controversial and I don't want to start anything here lol, so I'll leave it at that.

First I want to say thank you for not attacking me and for discussing this civilly with me, and I want to say I wasn't trying to misconstrue your point. I understand better where you're coming from now and I'm glad that you explained it. I have seen some people who were heavily implying what I mentioned and wondered if you were doing the same, but now I see that you're not.

 Ivy:

as though Korean media creators couldn't possibly have a story to tell involving sexual content without wanting to appeal to Western viewers

Personally, I've never thought this. It's so obvious that this isn't true when you look at the entirety of Korean media. I think maybe a lot of people misconstrue my point regarding this issue. My actual point isn't so black and white. I think that a lot of the more explicit dramas being released are coming out because Korean creators wanted to create them, and I think a lot of them are being released to appeal to western audiences. I think it's both. My main concern was that dramas with more sexual content seemed to be becoming more and more common, especially ones released on western platforms in particular, indicating a correlation to western influence. That's all. I didn't mean to make any blanket statements about Korean media creators.

 Ivy:

I also think the idea that Korean dramas are "purer" than American dramas is entirely steeped in racism and echos the racist tropes of docile Asian women.

Well, if most Korean dramas don't feature characters that constantly sleep around while American dramas do, it does kind of mean they're more pure? I guess it depends on your definition of pure though. As for me, one of the things I loved most about Korean dramas when I first started watching them were the fiery, spunky female leads that would hit guys over the head with their purse if they tried anything inappropriate, whereas in so many American shows women simply take abuse from men. It was so refreshing to see female characters with guts, instead of ones whose main job was standing there looking pretty and angsty. (to be fair I've never watched those famous older dramas like Boys Over Flowers and I simply won't, namely because of the gross misogynistic crap, but it means I'm missing a key part of k-dramas that did portray that sick "docile Asian woman" trope).

 Ivy:

But at the same time sexually explicit content still gets to exist and we don't and shouldn't get to dictate that it doesn't.

Fair point. I'd like to point out that sharing my opinions is not the same thing as dictating what Korean media creators are creating though. I have no influence over what kind of Korean dramas are produced and I don't pretend to lol. Personally, and this is where the controversial part comes in, I believe filming explicit scenes is quite simply a bad idea. I've said before that sex scenes and nudity are usually there for shock value and rarely contribute much to the plot, and come with many complications and possibly compromising situations for actors (especially female actors) that just aren't worth it. They can also be very objectifying (again, especially for women) which I'm not okay with.

It's also my personal belief that sex is private the same way taking a shower or using the restroom is and that no one actually needs to watch others do it. So yes, to put it bluntly, I do think explicit sex scenes shouldn't exist. But I acknowledge fully that that's just my own beliefs and I'm not trying to dictate what others believe. I tried to make that very clear in all my posts regarding this issue, as well. In fact, my intention was to share my opinions and hopefully discuss it with other like-minded people, not to convince, bully, or gaslight anyone who disagrees into agreeing with me (which some people accused me of lol).

Also, I wouldn't have minded some civil discussion with people who disagree with me, like the discussion we're having right now. For what it's worth, I really appreciate that btw.

 Ivy:

"They're only making it sexy to appeal to Americans" implies it wouldn't appeal to Koreans. Like another user pointed out it is rather infantalising.

PS. Sorry for adding to an already shamefully long reply lol, but I missed this and I wanted to mention, I think this point is totally valid and in my own defense, I'm sure there are plenty of Koreans who that type of content appeals to and I've never doubted it. If that came across in any of my comments, it wasn't intended. I just didn't want to see people (not referring to you) discounting the fact that some more conservative-leaning concepts like modesty and purity are historically Korean (Confucianist) ideals and that some Korean people probably still retain those ideals, and this could have possibly impacted their television as much as censorship laws.

Edit: I commented this too late and it's now out of order, sorry about that lol.