Firstly, I want to say I am blown away by how this production has embraced what a BL ought to be and that it isn’t the typical censored kbl that we’re used to. Secondly, I have to give this series props for portraying the quiet turmoil of everyday people, experiencing the brutality of life. What I mean by that, is that none of the leads are particularly exceptional or are experiencing an exceptional life. They are not special. Their circumstances aren’t special, or rare, or remarkable. There is almost a mundane devastating reality to it that feels like the everyday lives of very ordinary people. I think being able to capture unremarkable stories in such a remarkable way is a great talent.
Ok, so let’s dive in:
Episode 5 picks up where we left off at the end of episode 4. DH asks JY if he would like to have dinner and here is where I think the tone is set for the ‘new DH’. Far from what I was expecting at the end of episode 4; episode 5 opens with DH inviting JY to dinner in a nonchalant way. It was very much; “I’m just gonna treat you like we weren’t that close, we are just two people who knew each other vaguely in the past.” It’s giving, ‘polite catch up’. And we see this further in how DH keeps JY at arms length and treats him like a ‘stranger’ both in the car ride and at the dinner. However, his small gestures betray him. Note the scene where he hands him the glass of water (it may have been alcohol). It’s such an intimate gesture that is so full of care yet it’s juxtaposed with how aloof DH is acting by not looking at JY and acting snobbish along with the others. Still we can see that DH doesn’t quite fit with these group of people. He’s uncomfortable and not just because JY is there and he’s pretending like it’s no big deal; but also because he’s not quite one of ‘them’ no matter how much he pretends to be. The scene with his student’s mother further solidifies this.
This is an important episode to understand the now dynamic of the two leads. Instead of going somewhere in private to have a talk with JY, DH instead invites him to essentially ‘third wheel’ in the car on the way to their group dinner and this whole episode is just JY pretending like they are mere acquaintances and that there’s nothing they need to talk about. It’s that vibe of when someone pretends they don’t know you and you’re flabbergasted wondering if you’re the crazy one. This is reflected in JY’s reaction to him, because he can see how weird DH is acting. This new DH seems ‘off’ to him. It’s not until the dinner scene that I think JY begins to understand that DH is being weird because he has changed or at least is trying to appear as if he has changed.
On some level I think JY knows that this isn’t the real DH and this is perhaps why he dives back in despite how toxic that scene of the second break up was. I think in typical JY fashion, he believes he can save DH or bring him back to his old self. I fully imagine he has thought deeply about everything and he realises that DH is purposely pushing him away because of something he cannot share but he’s having a hard time with it. I think he’s beginning to realise DH’s life in Seoul is not rosy and neither is what he had to do to get there (see the drawer full of pills at DH’s apartment). It’s why he doesn’t want to give up on him. My personal opinion is that DH has a lot of guilt and shame to do with whatever deal or influence HH has had on his life post failing his college entrance exam. I think HH had a hand in getting DH out of that life that he hated so much and DH is not proud of it. Perhaps HH’s family connections or wealth is directly involved in DH being able to go to college and the connections/lifestyle he has now. I get the sense that DH is deeply ashamed of himself and perhaps feels like a fraud, especially in the presence of JY who knows him best. You can tell DH feels burdened by having HH around but it feels like he owes him something. He seems indebted to him. It’s very obvious that HH wants more from their strange relationship which makes you wonder why DH keeps him around if he makes him uncomfortable, but I think that’s the point. It makes you wonder why DH is involved with him? I believe this is what we’ll find out next episode.
The biggest thing that these two episodes highlight is that DH is running from his past. He refuses to confront it as there are some truths he’s not yet ready to face. It’s a mess of issues: - the abuse he faced from his father and the shame he feels about his selfishness, knowing but doing nothing about JY’s abuse by his father, as it meant his father had a new punching bag. And the reason he feels particularly guilty and shameful about this is because he KNOWS JY did it for him. He knows JY stayed and put up with it for him. That’s why he so carelessly said, “don’t tell me you did it for me”. It’s a very snide remark but it’s a comment that betrays how much guilt and responsibility he feels. He tells JY that he called the police that led to JY’s arrest and that he did it so that it wouldn’t disrupt his exams - essentially painting himself as this selfish person, but the truth is that he did it to protect JY. However, he doesn’t want JY to know this. He want’s JY to hate him instead and curse his existence. We as humans do this all the time because we think we deserve to be seen as the bad guy (due to guilt and shame). It’s why we push people away and make ourselves into the bad guy.
I go back and forth about whether I think DH cut ties with JY because he was upset that JY continued to speak to his father after all the abuse they both faced; or if it’s because JY keeping in contact with DH’s father meant that he couldn’t have JY in his life anymore if he wished to put his painful past behind him. Did he not want to get sucked back in the abuse? Did he know that JY has too much of a soft heart and is too forgiving and would try to get DH to forgive his father? Perhaps DH is resentful of JY being in touch with his father knowing how much DH suffered at his hands. Like I said, it’s a mess and a whole lot of complicated feelings.
It’s also important to understand that everything he has said to JY in these two episodes about why he doesn’t want to talk about the past is just an excuse. He is a man hiding within himself like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.
Like everyone in the comments are saying, they will need to have a serious and frank conversation. I don’t think this will be glossed over as I think DH’s unwillingness to open up about what he’s been through is the crux of the series. At the moment I think DH is ashamed of being ‘found out’ by JY. You see the shame whenever they bring up the conversation of his dream of becoming an architect. He even lies that the drawing was made by him. Perhaps DH is ashamed that JY’s sacrifice for DH to pursue his dream means that he is a failure and a fraud because he fell short of achieving that.
Thank you for clarifying the drawing thing because I was really lost, I didn't get it.
Honestly I think their (new) relationship hinge on the fact that JY is a giver, maybe even worse, a fixer. He "fixed" DH's dad in some way (I don't frankly understand their relationship) and he thinks he can save the son too if he gives him enough love. Unfortunately I feel like DH's needs may be a bit too much for even JY. DH truly is a wretched soul. Not his fault, but I really don't like him taking his anger out on JY.
I didn't like them this episode, I hated the fact that DH was acting condescendingly toward JY. That said, if his attitude is really borne from low esteem, I will hope he find a way. ASAP, because there's only 2 episodes left and I am NOT watching a second season.
mahiba:Thank you for clarifying the drawing thing because I was really lost, I didn't get it.
Honestly I think their (new) relationship hinge on the fact that JY is a giver, maybe even worse, a fixer. He "fixed" DH's dad in some way (I don't frankly understand their relationship) and he thinks he can save the son too if he gives him enough love. Unfortunately I feel like DH's needs may be a bit too much for even JY. DH truly is a wretched soul. Not his fault, but I really don't like him taking his anger out on JY.
I didn't like them this episode, I hated the fact that DH was acting condescendingly toward JY. That said, if his attitude is really borne from low esteem, I will hope he find a way. ASAP, because there's only 2 episodes left and I am NOT watching a second season.
I had considered that DH could be the rightful owner of the drawing (just going by the dates) but JY’s demeanour when he visited DH’s home after finding out, suggests that DH lied. It seems like JY felt pity for him in that scene and was hoping DH would be honest and open up to him.
In relation to their new relationship, it for sure is gonna get worse before it gets better because they haven’t addressed any of their big issues yet.
I agree that JY comes across as a fixer. For all we know the father may have continued to abuse JY all these years and he just put up with it. If their relationship really did get better, I’m sure it’s down to the old man being lonely and not because he turned over a new leaf.
The condescension was pretty hard to watch but so far, I have a lot of empathy for the characters. However, if this isn’t resolved satisfactorily, I think I may end up disliking the characters somewhat.
I hear you about not wanting to watch a season 2. I’d prefer if they wrapped it up in one season, mainly because second seasons take so long to come out and can get stuck in post production.
thank you for sharing your thoughts and starting this thread - I hope you don't mind me responding with my own word-vomit.
"Perhaps DH is ashamed that JY’s sacrifice for DH to pursue his dream means that he is a failure and a fraud because he fell short of achieving that." -- I think this is really on point.
my feeling, with the information we have so far, is that DH cut ties with JY because he was ashamed - ashamed of the fact that he knew about the abuse and didn't do anything to stop it, that he didn't help JY on the morning of the exam, that he recognized himself as a violent person (looking in the mirror while holding a knife...). I don't think that he knew how to live with that.
& as for JY's relationship with DH's father - it somehow made sense to me (in the light of JY saying they should eat as a family more often earlier on, for example); JY definitely didn't see violence as unforgiveable... but I think it might have been difficult for DH both to realize that JY had a better relationship with his father than he was ever capable of and that JY could forgive his father - while DH thought that he himself couldn't even ask for his forgiveness.
I have begun wondering about the ending, too. as far as I can tell, we have seen all the scenes that were shown in the teaser, so there's no indication there as to what happens next.
if DH and JY didn't get back together in these two episodes, I would have assumed that this was going to be the ending, but of course now we see that the reunion doesn't undo the pain that they are both living with (and frankly, I do love that, as a writing choice - I feel like a separation + a reunion is such a common ending in Korean shows, it's great to see that deconstructed, in a way - the idea that restoring a relationship automatically equals restoring of your personal happiness). in episode 6, I did begin to wonder whether it will not end with them going their separate ways!
my sense is that DH's father's gym will be key - JY seems to have been living with the belief that DH, and getting DH back, was all he wanted - but now the show is suggesting that this is not enough: when DH says something like, "I'm just happy when you're here, isn't that enough," JY - and the audience - is realizing that actually, this thing that seemed like all we wanted isn't enough... I am also thinking about JY's line in their argument, that he must be really insignificant to DH. so: right now, it seems like JY is poised to make a choice between DH (and the stasis of their adolescent relationship) - and the gym, which seems to stand in for pursuing his own dream. I do think that it will not be quite as simple as that, and just looking at Hwang da Seul's other shows, she does always bring the main characters together... but who knows, maybe it really is her writing her first show where that doesn't happen - where the resolution is in acknowledging what happened, not keeping on living through it. I admit that I'd be devastated, but I trust her to make it work if that's what's going to happen.
but if JY's arc is about pursuing things beyond DH - I also feel that DH's arc is about letting himself be genuinely open and vulnerable in front of JY... which hasn't really happened yet... going back to their sparring match: it feels like DH has been evading him this whole time!
although - now I think about it - the show has such a complicated relationship to dreams & ambitions... it's clear that JY is missing something beyond DH, but the pursuit of ambition is presented as so ruthless and violent, I can't believe that that would be a happy ending, either...
as a side-note, I also wanted to say how much I loved the scene in which DH comes back to the house - the way the flash-backs are spliced in, the way it's already becoming clear that DH knew what was happening, and the shot in which the teenage DH turns back to look at the house, and it feels like's looking at the adult DH. it's like they're both looking through time, and the adult DH is seeing a ghost. (a Biblical association: Lot's wife turning back to look at the burning city and turning into a pillar of salt). like this is the first time DH is confronting himself as a person who made that decision, as if looking into the mirror. & this with the buyers complaining about the ominous aura of the place - for DH, this place is literally haunted! and then when DH opens the door and JY is in there: that's a jump-scare! JY is a ghost of DH's past! that whole sequence was just so effective.
& a side-side-note: I wanted to second your thoughts on unremarkable, mundane lives... I love that they have such unglamorous jobs - that JY didn't get to be on the national team. as Leonard Cohen said: "Everybody has experienced the defeat of their lives. Nobody has a life that worked out the way they wanted it to work out. We all begin as the hero of our own dramas, in centre stage, and inevitably life moves us out of centre stage, defeats the hero, overturns the plot and the strategy and we’re left on the sidelines, wondering why we no longer have a part, or want a part, in the whole damn thing. So everybody’s experienced this. When it’s presented to us sweetly, the feeling goes from heart to heart and we feel less isolated and we feel part of the great human chain, which is really involved with the recognition of defeat."
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