This review may contain spoilers
toxicity dressed up as love
Overall the show is toxic, that is undeniable. But there are also a few good things and I really enjoyed parts of it, especially the first episodes.So, first what I liked.
- acting. Mew is an amazing actor and he really carried this show on his back many times. He is so much more than just good looks and I love how he shows different emotions with just slight changes of facial expressions. His pain was really heartbreaking and those little happy smiles Tharn tried to hide so desperately when Type did something nice were just stunning. Gulf was solid, though obviously overshadowed by Mew's performance. Other boys were decent but didn't really have much onscreen time.
- side characters. Techno was super cute and funny, I enjoyed every moment he was on screen. The entire group of friends was interesting and I would love to see more of them. The two guys who lived next to Tharn and Type were sweet.
- music was good and the theme song is lovely.
- chemistry between Tharn and Type was off the charts and all intimate moments were really hot.
Now a much longer list of what I didn't like.
- an unbelievably careless approach to sexual abuse. Type's unresolved trauma which is suddenly miraculously cured by sex. Tar being raped and the show not addressing this issue in a meaningful way. Tharn having dubiously consensual sex with San when the former was 14 and was so "small, cute and innocent that San couldn't resist". Plus Thorn, a loving big brother, laughing with San that "you had sex with my younger brother and it was so bad that he doesn't want to be a bottom ever again, but sure bro, you are still my best friend".
- Tharn's rapey behaviour. As much as I can understand that he felt attacked when he did nothing wrong and decided that since Type hates gays, some gay behaviour would be the best way to retaliate, but still, as soon as he learned about Type's past, he should have stopped it immediately. No excuses.
- Type's toxicity. Jesus, that was awful. I really felt sorry for Type at the beginning, but when he was still being a total asshole when Tharn was nothing but sweet and loving towards him, that was too much. No, it is not cute or mischievous, it is WRONG on so many levels. I get that Type was traumatised and was supposed to be the "tease" here, but ffs this is not how you justify being a toxic jerk towards the person you supposedly love.
- Tharn's absolute lack of self-esteem. He is repeatedly verbally and physically abused by Type and still comes back begging for more. It was terribly sad that Tharn was all smiles and happiness only because Type wasn't hating him for a few seconds. This is NOT how you should be treated in a relationship.
- ending. Honestly, was there any logic in this at all? Couldn't those two just TALK for once instead of having sex and fighting? Couldn't Type think of something that would NOT break Tharn's heart for a change? And Lhong is essentially left to his own devices and even assured that he is loved after he paid some guys to GANG RAPE Tar?
- overall lost potential. I really hoped that as the show touched upon so many important and difficult issues, it will be a meaningful story about overcoming your traumas, learning how to be more open-minded, working on relations with other people, establishing a healthy relationship and contributing to it in a mature way. It could have been so good.
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It's superb
First of all this is my first BL drama. It has already set up my standard so high that I think I never not love any BL drama as much aa I love this drama. For me it's superb. I really like the plot (it's bit cheesy but I'm not complaining) and its cast and not mentioned it's ost. Tharntype can make anyone fall in love with Them and BL dramas. Not gonna give any spoiler about the drama. But it's really amazing. After watching it soo many times already, I became a fan of BL series. And I think no matter how many bl series I watch in future, nothing can replace Tharntype, it gonna remain at top and my most favourite bl drama forever. I really recommend everyone to watch this drama and fell in love with their cast (specially Mewgulf) and bl series.Ps. It's just frictional plot no need to over react with something thats imaginary. Rest up to you all wheather you want to watch it or not. It's just my opinion.
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This review may contain spoilers
Romanticizing Abusive Relationships
Things that I liked about the series:- So I FINALLY get to talk about this show! I think this was my most anticipated review ever since I posted that I'd be watching/reviewing TharnType. A lot of you were expecting me to see why MewGulf is such a popular ship. So what's my verdict?
...Okay yeah, I can see why they're beloved. I stan MewGulf, I admit it. CONGRATS BL FANS, YOU WON ME OVER!!!!
- Right away, I want to dive into Gulf's character "Type" first. First off, let me say I hate homphobia. I'm gay, and I'm proud, and anybody who has a problem with gays can kiss my ass. That being said, I have to commend this show for giving me a reason for Type's homophobia that is arguably understandable. Normally when we see homophobia being portrayed in shows and movies, it's usually the whole, "God hates gays" or "Being gay is a sin." *yawn* But with Type, that's not the case. His homophobia comes from a traumatic event as a child where he was raped by a male pedophile. I honestly do not blame him for staying away from gays after that, and I applaud the writers for giving us a valid reason that has nothing to do with religion.
I think what makes it worse for Type is that he knows he's attracted to Tharn despite how much he hates gays, which means he also hates himself for the feelings he has. I can't imagine what kind of turmoil that must cause for someone's mentality. Bravo, TharnType.
- Another thing about Gulf's character Type is that he has one of the better character developments in BL. He starts off as an angry homophobe, then slowly grows more into his relationship with Tharn. Then he wants to keep his new boyfriend a secret, but then he slowly starts telling those closest to him about his relationship with Tharn. He hates the mere sight of Tharn's ex-boyfriend Tar, but at the last episode, they seem to develop a mutual acquaintance, or friendship. He's grown so much over the course of 12 episodes, and I love seeing that in a character.
- Let's talk about Mew's character next. Mew plays Tharn, a character who I can best describe as, "A GENTLE GIANT." He's a power top on the outside, but has the heart of a submissive. He's so loving, affectionate, and caring; not just for Type, but for everyone around him. When it comes to Type, I think there is nothing this man wouldn't do to please him. He'd probably drink Type's piss if he asked him to. He's one of the more softer dominants we've seen in a BL, and I honestly love it. I love how his and Type's personalities are opposite of the roles they play in the relationship. It breaks the typical stereotype of who's considered top or bottom.
- Let's go to the actors. As usual, all actors were phenomenal. What do you expect in BL? This industry has some of the most talented actors around. That said, there are some that really stole the show for me. The actors who I felt shined the most were Mew, Kok who plays Tharn's ex-boyfriend "Tar," and Kaownah who plays "Lhong." These three actors stood out to me.
- Kok, who plays Tar, I felt had the biggest acting range of them all. He's had to play so many layers to his character in one season. Showing Tar's shy side, his vulnerable side, his obsessive side, and his broken side. That's a lot to pull off, and he did it so effortlessly. I do hope that we'll one say see Kok play a lead role in a BL someday. I would love to see him have a loving BL partner. I think Tar and Tum were so cute together, and I wouldn't have minded if they got a spinoff together where they played the leads (if they're not blood related of course.)
- Oh dear lord, I have so much to say about Kaownah's character "Lhong" but none of them are good. So let me start with the good. Kaownah did such an amazing job playing a mentally psychotic character that I hate so much. lol
- Oh, and there's a lot of hot sexy scenes, so....yeah. There's that.
Things I didn't like about the series:
- This is where I feel like I'm going to have so many BL fans hate my guts LMFAO. Let's talk about the storyline for a second. I'll be blunt...the storyline is not good. I mean, it has a lot of good ideas, but the execution was bad. It's very problematic in multiple ways.
- I said a lot of positives about Type's characters, but I do have a few problems with him too. While his behavior is arguably understandable TO AN EXTENT, he's still not a likable character. I think my biggest problem with Type is how violent he is, especially to Tharn. We've seen Type physically assault Tharn multiple times, even when they started dating. Punching him in the face, kicking him, kneeing him in the crotch, etc. TYPE IS ABUSIVE, there's no way to tip toe around it. He's literally abusive. I do sympathize with him, I do see some good in him, and I can see that he grows to love Tharn, but does the good outweigh the bad? That part I'm unsure of. I had this similar dilemma with Khai from "Theory of Love," and sadly, I still prefer Type over him. Reason being is because we actually HAVE A REASON to cut Type some slack, and we do see why Type could be called a good guy. With Khai, we don't really see it. Any good he does was for himself or to try to win over Third. That's not enough.
- Unfortunately, Type isn't the only lead I have a problem with. I have a few problems with Tharn as well.
Right away, I have to say this. THARN WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTING TYPE. Don't you dare try to say he wasn't. Ep 1, he was kissing all over a drunk, unwilling Type, even after he said he doesn't do it with drunks. NONCONSENTUAL ACTS ARE NOT ATTRACTIVE. CAN WE PLEASE STOP ROMANTICIZING IT!?!
And can we please stop using the whole "It's only fiction," excuse to justify it! Nothing justifies it, fiction or reality.
And I can't help but wonder why that was put in, because it never really happens again the rest of the season, and it really doesn't mesh well with Tharn's character at all. It seemed out of place, and just used as an excuse to get some sexy times in right at the beginning, which is pathetic.
Other than the sexual assault, I also hate how much of a pushover Tharn is. He literally takes any abuse given to him and never really fights back. He accepts it because that's how much he loves Type, and I find it funny how the writers are trying to make it seem romantic, when it accurately portrays an abusive relationship with a beaten wife.
- Aaaaand we're back to Lhong. I've heard he's one of the most hated characters in BL, and now I know why. Lhong is a piece of shit and he needed his ass kicked, which never happened except that one punch Tharn delivered. Lhong's character is probably the most poorly written character in the entire series, and I really hate how the writers were trying to make us feel sympathy for him. Oh he feels alone, that's why he hired three guys to rape a 10th grader, and almost kill Type, all to have someone who will never love him all to himself. FUCK YOU, LHONG! I'm so sorry, but I will never feel sorry for this asshole, and the fact the writers were trying to make us feel sorry for him is disgusting. He should've gotten his ass beaten bloodied. He should've gotten arrested. Did any of that happens? NO!! He gets away with it all, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Even when the writers are supposedly trying to show us why he's like that, it was also poorly executed. We're just TOLD how lonely he feels, but we never actually see it. We never see how lonely and broken it feels, and that's it. For any future writers out there, SHOW, DON'T TELL!!! That's one of the main rules in storytelling.
- I have to admit, the ending was very unsatisfying. There was so many plot holes that were left untouched that we may never get answers for, unless they're in season 2.
- Did Type and Kohm ever make up?
- Did Tum and Tharn make up?
- Did their former roommates ever get together?
- Why didn't Tar and Tharn talk in person about what happened?
- Why didn't Tharn tell his bandmates the truth about why Lhong was no longer in the band?
Why do we not have any answers to any of these?
- I'm also confused by Tar and Tum's relationship. Are they related by blood? Because Tum clearly likes Tar more than a brother, but they never specified their relationship. So many things left open.
Overall Thoughts:
This is probably the most frustrating review I've ever made so far, because I still don't know if I actually liked it overall or not. This show is very problematic, and I'm not even sure I've covered everything lol. I do love MewGulf as a pair. I think they have outstanding chemistry, and despite my issues with their characters, I did find myself smiling at them a lot. I loved the idea of their enemies-to-lovers relationship, though I wish it was better written. I think my biggest issue with the show is the ending with Lhong's character, and all the plot holes left unfinished. That's how I can best describe the ending. Unfinished.
But my overall problem with TharnType has nothing to do with the actors, or the chemistry. It all comes down to the writing, which is not good. Sorry, but that's my honest opinion. The writing is the weakest part of TharnType. I feel like this show gets most of its hype because of how hot MewGulf are, and because of all the sex scenes. That's it. And while the sexy scenes were hot, and so are our leads, that alone does not make up for the bad writing. It's not completely garbage, but it could've been so much better.
I will admit, I enjoyed watching this show far more than I was expecting to, but in my heart, I can't say it's one of the best BL shows I've seen. I wasn't bored though, so that's a plus, but I'm not even sure if I'd watch it again. So many good ideas, so much talent all around, but a lot of wasted potential.
Rank: 7/10
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It wasn't bad but...
This review probably won't be that long how I am used to write, I don't have many things I want to say (which is weird).I think it's totally undestandable why I chose this show, I wanted to see BL which will have to be good. I watched 2gether and I didn't like it, so I thought thai dramas probably weren't my style. But two days ago, I was sick and I said something like "ok, let's try some BL, I am tired of myself, I want something where I don't have to think".
TharnType seriously isn't bad show, I liked it more than 2gether, on top of I watched the whole drama which is incredible. It's supposing sweet and nice story about the relationship between openly gay and the boy who hates gays at all. It's not bad but also it wasn't the best, still I am person who wants romance which will be logical and also where the romance won't be too much. This is mainly romance show so still it don't suits my taste. But, yeah, I liked it. Probably.
Chemistry between them was sooo good and probably that's why I like it. I fell in love with Tharn, he is so cute and I like his character. On the opposite side, Type... no, please no, his character was frustrating to me. Can we sometimes have relationship without arguings? Because it's possible in the real life, it is, I want to see it also in drama because I am sure I would love this drama so much!
Some scenes were weird and I didn't understand opinions and decisions of characters (mainly Type, I just don't like his character). But I liked it. This thai bl drama wasn't that bad. So thanks for nice experience.
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Not My Type
Am I beating a dead horse with writing a review five years after this drama came out? Absolutely. Am I going to do it anyway? Yup. I've been in a bit of a slump lately when it comes to dramas and decided to go back and re-watch one of the first Thai BLs I ever saw. I remember TharnType being toxic and really not that great despite some cute moments, but was it really THAT bad? It was so much worse.When I first watched TharnType, I think I was very much in that oooh, new shiny toy phase. I did not have a 100+ dramas under my belt so my standards were low and I was easily distracted by fluff. Now much more seasoned, that wasn't going to fly and what I came away with was a new appreciation for just how incredibly toxic this drama is and how poor the writing is and by poor I mean I think a child could write a more cohesive story. I know that's mean, I'm sorry, but seriously, how do you read through a script and not see all the glaring errors?
One of the more benign issues with this drama is the timeline. It's not at all clear cut and trying to figure out how much time has progressed is just a waste of brain cells. We do get a brief "three weeks prior" in the first episode to show Tharn and Type meeting and that they do initially hit it off, but that's about it.
The lack of any more than that one scene is another issue in that Tharn's love for Type is never properly established. We know that he fell for Type, if not at first sight, then sometime during that three week period before Type found out that he was gay. The fact that isn't shown though was an error on the writer's part as it makes Tharn seem like some kind of crazy masochist or something who fell in love with Type despite his abusive treatment.
Tharn and Type are both walking red flags as far as I'm concerned despite the fluffy moments between them in the latter half of the drama. While I found redeeming qualities in them in the past, at this point, I really can't. Though I guess from that standpoint, I can figure that they deserve each other.
- Tharn lost any respect I may have had for him by sexually assaulting Type not once, but twice. I'm not excusing Type's behaviour, I'll get to him in a minute, but acting like a child and destroying personal property was not an excuse to assault him. Nor was any of his other harassing behaviour of getting into Type's personal space. The mature thing to do would have been to report the damage. Also, he liked Type, okay, but all the touching and forehead kisses, again, when Type was asleep, was he oblivious to how inappropriate that was or did he just not care? It wasn't romantic in the slightest, it was actually downright creepy.
Tharn is supposed to be the good guy. He's the one we're supposed to root for and he does get better, but he's also a contrarian. He likes to come across as this understanding person with his puppy eyes, yet at the same time, he can be utterly oblivious or downright selfish. That shower scene. Type said no, that should have meant he backed off immediately, no questions asked, but he chose to sexually assault Type again. Other moments include when Type had his panic attack. Common sense would dictate when someone is panicking and telling you to let them go, you do so. Instead, Tharn continued to crowd his space and then got ticked off when Type kicked him. There's also the fact that he didn't realize something was going on with Tar when it was painfully obvious something was wrong or that Lhong was in love with him which was also quite obvious. And while Tharn could be a sweetheart, for some reason it felt surface level. He never initiates a conversation with Type about his mental health, about the toll his trauma had taken on him or how he can help and support him. That being said, though it's not presented as such, it's likely that he has his own trauma from losing his virginity to Thorn's friend San. There's not a lot of detail given and ages are unknown, but the way it's presented makes it seem to me like Tharn was also potentially a victim of sexual assault.
- Type is quite simply an ass. How he has any friends when he's an abusive jerk to essentially everyone he meets is beyond me. And he is abusive, certainly verbally, potentially physically as well. His redeeming qualities are pretty much nil and while he does mellow, he's still an ass in the end. His character was also frustrating to watch in terms of his mental health. One of Thai BLs favorite things is using the power of love as a way to heal anything and everything. In this case, it magically cures Type of his PTSD. This was back when the only gay for you was going strong so it didn't cure that and Type still hated gays. But yeah, love, oh, and one sexual assault blowjob and he was good to go! No more panic attacks for the rest of the drama. Why waste your money on therapy when that's all you need? Seriously though, the inconsistency was grating.
One of the things that I found really frustrating about this drama and that I have found is pretty consistent with Mame's writing, is that she likes to take issues like depression, sexual assault, rape, etc. and use them as plot devices, but in a very flippant manner. A number of these characters went through serious trauma, but it's not treated that way. It's there when it's needed and convenient and forgotten when it's not. There were opportunities here to actually have meaningful dialogue about these traumas within the story, but instead we were subjected to a writer who apparently couldn't be bothered to do any kind of research and who exacerbated the characters' traumas. Tar, despite the absurdity that no one, especially Tum, caught onto his depression, was the one character who's mental health issues felt realistic. They actually tried to show the symptoms of depression. He was also, coincidentally, the one character who had been to therapy. That's one character out of four with likely trauma who was shown some effort. Sad.
The acting was good. Mew and Gulf had serious chemistry and that's the main reason why this drama was and still is so popular and why it worked. That being said, did Mew look in any way like a 19-year-old? Absolutely not, he looks his age which would be fine if not for the fact that Kokliang, who played Tar, looked about 15-years-old despite them actually being only a couple years apart. It created an awkward, borderline predatory dynamic between them that was just uncomfortable to watch. It also made it really hard to imagine Tharn falling in love with Tar and them being together.
While there is a lot of negative, there are a couple of positives besides the acting. The biggest one is Techno. He's the one bright spot in this drama and I loved him. He was entertaining and uncomplicated and a genuinely likable person. Mild did a great job portraying him. The music was good. I liked it then and I still like it now. There are some sweet scenes between Tharn and Type that I do like. The production quality as a whole, minus the writing, was pretty good honestly.
Going back and re-watching this, I was hoping for a bit of a fond, albeit slightly toxic (it is Mame after all), trip down memory lane. Sadly, my mind had apparently blocked most of the negative scenes and just remembered the sweet fluff. As you can imagine, there actually wasn't much there to remember after all. I will say that watching it, it's nice to see that progress has been made in the industry, there are fewer BL dramas like this being made though there's still room for improvement. It's safe to say I will NOT be going back to this one ever again. However, I am still left with one burning question: how the heck is Lhong not in prison?
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When you're in "who's more toxic" contest and your opponent is TharnType
This is actually a psychological drama about two mentally ill people falling in love with each other. People were telling us how KinnPorsche was toxic, but it was NOTHING in comparison with TharnType. You have trauma, sexual harassment & assault, r*pe, manipulation, (probably) p3dophilia, incest... Damn, the last time I felt this uncomfortable was while reading Killing Stalking. It's a show full of red flags, or psychos.. or both. Plus, A LOT of characters should've ended up in prison.Yeah, I gasped multiple times, but in the end it was annoying, and I hated it. So many BL shows needed season two, but TharnType got it??? No way, I'm not watching it. I'm angry.
Story: Toxic, weird, I felt uncomfortable.
Acting/Cast: Fine, I guess.
Music: Ryuichi Sakamoto is shaking, crying rn.
Rewatch Value: An absolute zero. I'm never watching this again.
BTW, I'm surprised that Ryuichi Sakamoto didn't sue them for stealing the Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence theme song lol.
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WTH!?
I watched this years ago but I'll write a review now. Honestly after watching this I did not watch any films and dramas for atleast 2 years, that is how traumatised I was. I am writing a review now because I saw people comment how awesome this drama is/was. Anyone who thinks this one is good needs to see a doctor immediately.Type is a victim of SA and what do we get? A male lead who forces himself on drunk Type and has xxx with him. "But he liked it", these type of comments make me question humanity. What I hate about thai especially thai bl dramas are these type of plots were SA is swiped under the rug. Don't touch it if you are not going to give these type of storylines justice. Only one scene, Type's trauma is shown only in one scene and then it is forgotten and what Tharn did was okay because he is the male lead. BS! I hate Tharn with a I have, his friend is no different than him. He druged his ex boyfriend and hired men to gang rxxx him. What did Tharn do? Wail in pity how he has been cheated on. The poor boy had to go thru such a traumatic experience only for his boyfriend to call him a hoe. Not even a sorry, not one single word from Tharn to his ex boyfriend who suffered and developed a mental illness even after learning what had truly happened. He only took action after his friend tried to do the same to Type what a hero right? What about his friend? Nothing, nothing happens to him. They just brush it with a "he loved Tharn, that is why he did what he did." Oh he got punched by Tharn for trying to touch his man.
I'll give it a 2 and only for the music nothing else. Such dramas should be banned. Honestly my brain froze most of the plot since it was triggering. I dont recall much but anyone who thinks this one is a good one needs help asap. Anyone who says this is just a drama does not understand the severity of the ever-changing mindset of humans.
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Dramatic ... But in a good way ....
This BL series was definitely different... Not too sure about the hype behind it and all, but I did find this drama to be a real sweet story with a good story background.The two main characters had some serious good chemistry going to between them, I particular liked Tharn role, his cool and relax attitude and understanding to Type was really awesome. The way he patiently waited and understood where type was coming from after his ordeal was really strong of him, it showed his character to be one of strength and understanding. Type in the beginning was a bit childish and very immature but he was understandable from his point of view, and in the end I loved how he came around and claimed Tharn as his.
The emotions between these two characters was felt, especially in some episodes, you could really feel the love and sadness for these when something took a turn, but I love how they always work things out and always stood by each other, and made up.
Type friend was really supportive and extremely the funny one, and the rest of the characters were really good.
I totally enjoyed this drama and the two songs that goes with Tharn & Type is really good.
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THARNTYPE
Okay after watching this Drama maybe the 10th time I'm here to tell you my view. This Drama is and was amazing. It doesn't matter how often you will watch it you will find new details and you will fall in love again.For me, there are 3 reasons to watch this drama again and again. Reason 1 Mew Suppasit. His Role as Tharn really was gorgeous, I knew him before from the Ugly Duck Series but maybe I'm Dumb or Blind but I didn't pay him any attention in this Show even when he had some Sexy Scenes there and already showed his Arm and Hand Veins, I "IGNORED THEM" 😫 (Like Mushu from Mulan says " Shame on you, shame on your Family and Shame on your Cow!") and yes I'm a very big fan now of his Veins after watching both Series. 😍
Okay, let's continue Reason 2 is the Chemistry between Mew and Gulf. Their Acting together was so nice to watch and you could see the Changes in every new Episode. Their Emotional Display was Chefs Kiss. And I really can say even if it's maybe a Spoiler KUDOS to Gulf in Season2 and his Acting Development!" They both are really good Actor and I can´t wait to see more Drama with them, it doesn't even need to be a BL again I think they both could fit into a Crime or Detective Drama too.
And Reason 3. P´NO, TECHNOOOOOO! Hello, who hasn't fallen in Love with our P´No. Everyone needs a No as his best friend. He is funny, caring and with him, you will have 10.000 Reasons to laugh because he always will make your Day with his Actions. Every Scene with him was Amazing and I laughed with Tears in my Eyes.
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This review may contain spoilers
This series normalizes forced sexual intercourse.
Strange country Thailand where a person instigates a gang rape against a minor, is discovered, there is evidence and instead of calling the police, reporting him and having him arrested, they leave him crying in the middle of the street. Same thing for the elder brother of the protagonist, he introduces his minor brother to a friend asking him to take care of him for serious family reasons and he rapes him, because having sex with a minor even if consenting is rape beautiful people for the law and the ethical sense of sane people there are not two opinions, but the elder brother instead of breaking the face of his "friend", denounce him and send him to jail continues to attend him peacefully and also invite him to lunch at the family home. Not to mention the times that the supone protagonist straight or bisexual tells the other that he doesn't want you to touch him and that he continues unscrupulously to do what he likes. In Thailand it seems that they still don't know that when a man or a woman says NO it means NO and you have to stop. This series normalizes forced sexual intercourse in a terrible way, it's garbage, violence and abuse from start to finish.Was this review helpful to you?
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Major regret.
Lhong should be In jail. Tharn was in no position to forgive Lhong as he wasn’t the victim of the traumatic crime.He basically said what Lhong did was fine because his childhood was rough… (normal people get therapy not organise a gang rape).Tharns character had so many issues first being the fact he had no compassion for Types trauma and just decided the best way of dealing with it was to basically force him until he likes it. The second was that he sexually takes advantage of Type in the first couple episodes.
These types of themes shouldn’t be brushed aside or taken lightly , the people that make shows like these should be held accountable, it’s honestly sickening.
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