I wanted to discuss a few things about the actions of the female lead in the first half of this drama:
1. Why the hell she was so scared of Jin Tae Oh when he threatened her with her sister? The guy was literally saying that he was going to kill her sister if she didn't seduce Tae In Joon. Like that wouldn't have any repercussions for him. Every sensible person would call his bluff, he has no personal grudge against her, the only connection between them is money. He might've been paying for her hospital bills, but by the time he threatened Koo He Ra in the hospital room, she already had good job at In Joon's company, meaning she could just pay them herself at that point. I don't get it.
2. Maybe I should've brought this up as the first point (because it annoys me way more), but I think we can all agree that Koo He Ra has been acting like she owns the damn place everywhere she goes. I might not be an expert on the subject of manners in Korea, but as far as I can tell she doesn't have any. Along with that comes an absolutely insane amount of confidence while there is not a single reason given as to why she would be so confident. The writers are basically just saying: ''Yes she is a confident person who doesn't care about boundaries in any way, shape or form. Why you ask? She just is....''. If I'm wrong please tell me the episode where the reason for her ''character'' is explained. A reason like: ''She has had a very tough life.'' doesn't really do it for me.
3. This is more out of curiosity about what you guys think: Just like in ''The Beauty Inside'' (Where the relationship between Lee Da Hee and Ahn Yae Hyun was more interesting to me.) I'm more interested in how the relationship between Tae In Joon's little sister and Sun Young's little brother ends up. The chemistry between the actors is amazing. I see this as another problem with the female lead, her relationship with Tae In Joon is just too bland, boring and progresses slowly without us even knowing what she actually thinks about him. I understand that keeping her true intentions hidden is part of what makes the overall plot more interesting, but in the last few episodes she even admitted that she's doesn't even know what she wants to do (When she is eating with her thug friend from Busan). This makes it (at least for me) very hard to really be invested in this couple.
Great discussion questions, @Luke! Thank you for starting this discussion.
#1 In questioning Hae Ra's acquiescence in Ep. 10 to Tae Oh's threats, you said: "Every sensible person would call his bluff, he has no personal grudge against her, the only connection between them is money."
I was gobsmacked when Tae Oh assaulted Hae Ra!
Her terrified reaction was absolutely normal and she was not physically or psychologically prepared to call anyone's bluff. Hae Ra's not a firefighter or police officer trained to remain calm and operational during a crisis. Tae Oh had just removed her sister's ventilator and slammed her against the wall! Immediately agreeing to Tae Oh's demands was the best way for her to protect her sister.
Up to that point, she had no idea what was at stake for Tae Oh. I was impressed how she wasted no time in digging up Jenny, his only vulnerability. It was a bold move to threaten to hurt Jenny if Tae Oh hurt her sister. I can't imagine her following through but I think she made the point that she would not be cowed.
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#2 You observed, "I think we can all agree that Koo He Ra has been acting like she owns the damn place everywhere she goes."
Ha! This made me laugh because I've been struggling to find the right word to describe her presence. She projects a regal air of detachment that drives her "betters" crazy. In a deeply hierarchical and patriarchal society like Korea, Hae Ra hilariously refuses to kiss ass. For example, from the moment she met In Joon, she called him out for speaking casually to her and slapped him for offering money to her like a prostitute to get the Italian's "heart."
The OTP's conversation at the little restaurant in Ep. 7 revealed their opposite and symmetrical youthful struggles. Hae Ra's drive to succeed in design school came from being worthy of her sister's financial/emotional support and her desire to build a new future away from Korea. The fact that the family was forced to borrow from loan sharks (instead of a conventional bank) suggests that, despite her father's skills, the family hovered on the edge of poverty. In Busan, she holds her own against the rougher members of society as she participates in the underground economy to keep the lights on and to keep up with her sister's longterm care.
As the youngest member of her family, it seems like her sister played the role of caretaker. The sisters were very close and I can imagine Hae Ra may have been a little cosseted. Her sister's sacrifices and current condition are a constant reminder of the privileges she had and lost.
Maybe in the end, her manner is a form of self-defense. But damn, I admit she's made me flinch a couple times. Not because of rudeness but because she's a terrible poker player. She's so easily goaded by Cha Soo Hyun; as Tae Oh once said, she's always "flapping her mouth." She would benefit from taking a page from Go Ah Jung, In Joon's sister-in-law. That woman looks like a mouse on the outside but she's quietly collecting fuel to burn down the whole house.
I can't wait to see how she acts when she meets In Joon's family!
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#3 While I have zero interest in romantic pairing between Jung Min and Eui Gun, I appreciate Jung Min's feistiness. I hope her interactions with Hae Ra's adopted family help Jung Min become a better person.
In response to @Dragonfly Barbie's critique of the OTP romance in the general comments, I outlined 7 factors that make their romance believable. But your own critique here made me realize that I see everything from In Joon's perspective.
Up until now, In Joon was a mark. And you're not supposed to fall for your mark. My hope is that we'll see more of how Hae Ra feels. Otherwise, it's a lot of work for the audience to keep up a one-sided love.
To #1. Why the hell she was so scared of Jin Tae Oh when he threatened her with her sister?
That scene was probably exaggerated to highlight the power structure between Jin Tae Oh and Hae Ra. (The cardiac monitor is wired to some notification system in the hospital or alarm when it goes below a threshold, but no alarm / personnel were triggered)
2. #2
I think Hye Ra's familiarity with high society (pride, ball, social graces) came from her upper class family background prior to her sister's incident. (her dad makes bespoke shoes, they might not have been rich rich, but would have definitely been familiar with money. Additionally, she is able to converse in Mandarin (song), Italian (translator) and English (old man's conversation at ball party). Being multilingual is rare in Korea and hard to master in the few semesters she spend in Italy. This would suggest that her childhood may have been special and involved quite a few tutors, signs of a well to do family.
In her interaction with the old man at the ball, she demonstrated social graces and mannerism of the rich, and is able to elicit the proper response from the old man while maintaining her elegance. This comes from the old man's consideration of her being his muse, suggesting that Hye Ra is able to provide thoughtful conversation (not just a flower)
I believe after her sister's incident, the family bankrupted themselves maintaining her stay in the hospital, hence the loans. Additionally in the first episode, we were introduced to Hye Ra with her best friend's brother smuggling leather for her workshop. Going out on a limb, this might suggest that perhaps her family's situation and sudden inability to procure leather may have been the influence of others.
Her familiarity with gangsters is perhaps exaggerated by the director to highlight the stark contrast in her different identities.
Her interaction with Cha Soo Hyun (female antagonist) is perhaps to portray her feelings of frustration at the supposed injustice of life, the insecurities she feels of her inadequacy at providing for her sister and social inferiority against Soo Hyun (name card taken by Soo Hyun and slight of being judged a whore by Soo Hyun).
I see Tae Oh's comment of "flapping her mouth" points towards Hye Ra's desire to finally take more control over her own life. Her asking of information is her wanting to act in the scheme as an equal partner. This is directly correlative of her insistence of being able to control the "temperature"of her approach to Tae In Joon (male lead), so that she is able to act as an independent rather than that of a tool. This also correspondence with the scene that of her decision at moving to seoul, akin to her determination of taking control of her life.
All these interactions with gangster, Cha Soo Hyun, and Tae Oh, is meant to built Hye Ra's character as a strong independent woman.
3. #3
I see Tae Jung Min's and Kang Eui Gun's character as being there to provide a link of passing information from Hye Ra's side to the Tae family, and perhaps as a plot shield for Hye Ra. (my understanding is currently at ep 10 or 1/11/2019). Their character development thus is secondary to the show.
Luke: " see this as another problem with the female lead, her relationship with Tae In Joon is just too bland, boring and progresses slowly"
"This makes it (at least for me) very hard to really be invested in this couple."
Just wanted to add that I've had that problem for quite a few of the newer dramas. They progress slowly and I kind of don't know what to do with the main couple. It's kinda "passive" [like in best Chicken and Last empress. And in my strange hero (that one I've dropped after ep14 so idk if it got better)]
Thanks for all your thoughts guys! I read some interesting opinions here and would firstly like to elaborate on the first point I made: I do understand that it was a very shocking and traumatic experience, and her actions in that moment were nothing but logical and reasonable. I mainly had a problem with how she didn't rationalize the situation after it happened (I'll steal your format of highlighting important stuff here @tsutsuloo :P). She definitely has had experience with being put under pressure (loan sharks), so being able to think through what happened should not be new to her. Doing so would make her come to the conclusion that Jin Tae Oh was also desperate about something, which would give her more leverage in their relationship. So while I understand the point made by @tsutsuloo, I still think that her actions following the incident weren't the most logical or sensible.
You guys had a lot to say about my second topic and I think I do understand her character a bit more now. ''All these interactions with gangster, Cha Soo Hyun, and Tae Oh, is meant to built Hye Ra's character as a strong independent woman. '' (@swongy) Although this is a very reasonable observation, I get the impression that her character is portrayed in the way I described from the very first episode, so that would be before her interactions with both Cha Soo Hyun and Tae Oh. Which then only leaves us with the ''She has dealt with gangsters/loan sharks and has had a rough life'' narrative. Both of you guys (@swongy and @tsutsuloo) make an argument that she was rich before, and that her behavior is explained by this. If this is actually true, and that she has been familiar with rich people, that would explain most of it for me. But so far in the drama I haven't been convinced that that is actually the case. To quote myself: The writers are basically just saying: ''Yes she is a confident person who doesn't care about boundaries in any way, shape or form. Why you ask? She just is....''. This still is my opinion as I don't really buy the whole ''gangster interactions'' explanation.
As to my 3rd point: I guess I'm the only one who cares about romance between these character :D. And btw @Lara- I completely agree with you, only recent drama that doesn't have this far for me is My Strange Hero, because Bok Su is so straight forward, I love it.
Forgot to mention this the first time but sorry for the bad grammar, English is not my first language.
OwO
@Luke, @swongy and @lara—All your perspectives have enhanced my experience of enjoying Fates and Fury.
@Luke—Your written English is excellent!
@swongy tapped a concise word for Hae Ra—elegant. While I didn't imagine that her family ever had wealth, being artisans does make them cultured. It was perceptive for @swongy to suggest Hae Ra's superb language skills** were the result of special tutoring.
By describing her as “cosseted,” I really meant that she was much loved and probably pampered by her older sister.
**Note on Lee Ming Jung’s English pronunciation: She said the “f” in fireworks perfectly. Korean doesn’t have that specific fricative but she nailed it.
Looking forward to Saturday!
Episode 21 - 24 is just wow. The commitment it takes to enter a physical relationship with someone you are seething against.
Jin Tae Oh is frankly a disappointment. His current position deviates too far from the savvy business man competing in the cutthroat world, and "love" degenerates him to a naive fool deluded on absurdity of innocent love, especially when he had been raised in an environment that stands for none.
Sincerely I hope the title "fates and furies" is insinuating that all players would end furious at their fates. That Jin Tae Oh would be seething with Hae Re's betrayal, and concludes with a bitter ending for all involved. That the remaining episodes would tell the tale of their rage and a mutually destructive revenge.
*side note *entirely my opinion *apologies if offended. I like to think that Lee Min Jung resonates with her character due to the parallels to her real life. Both shares a silent resentment against her traitorous partner. Both endures and sacrificed due to their loved ones.
She's cute, and she deserves a better husband.
10 thousand years after i watched the show, I just realized, Go Hae Ra in Korean is 구해라, and 해라 in Korean means " Do it". Her name is literally "Go Do It". The ultimate plot shield on why and how, she act the way she did, and how she is able to seamlessly accomplish feats that defies rationality.
When you are named after "Go Do it", you just got to go and do it.
Lost in translation.
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