There's been much discussion about whether this show is a Bromance or a BL. The MDL tag says it's a Bromance. However, those tags are created by fans, and do not indicate the intent of the actual show's producers. I, myself, believe the show's producers intended for us to see this as a BL, but because of China's censorship they had to rely on codes. And let me say, those codes are pretty damn strong! Indeed, I listed 10 of the coded ways that the show signaled gay love.
Of course, there are those who disagree and think this is a Bromance. Your opinion is welcome too. After all, this is an open discussion for all and any fans of the show!
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Top 10 Reasons This Is a BL, Not a Bromance
1) Right after Su Yu told Wu Bi that he can’t be friends with rich people, Wu Bi's dad cut off his allowance. Wu Bi suddenly remembered Su Yu’s words and had an epiphany: “Wait, if dad cuts off my allowance it means I won’t be rich anymore!” Then he got a big, goofy smile on his face cuz he was thrilled by the prospect of being poor if it meant Su Yu would keep him in his world.
2) A couple days later they had that backwards bike ride during which Wu Bi stared directly at Su Yu, because he enjoyed seeing the otherwise reserved Su Yu cutting loose, smiling, laughing and having so much fun. No guy stares at another guy that intently if they are “just friends.”
3) When playing with Duo and holding sparklers, they took a moment to turn and face each other, and then stared into each other’s eyes. Friends don't stare directly into each others eyes.
4) After the dad and Aunt Zou got married Wu Bi was worried about Su Yu’s cramped living situation and, thus, rented the house next door for them. Hence, he was providing real estate to ensure that his partner was provided for. It’s the same as in a hetero marriage wherein the husband feels obligated to provide a home for his new wife.
5) Wu Bi talked to Duo about his “inner torment” because he was in love. The viewer has not seen anybody else in Wu Bi’s life except his immediate family and Su Yu. Thus, we can conclude that Su Yu must be the person with whom he’s in love.
6) When both were reclining on the bed to study, Su Yu rested his head on Wu Bi’s bottom and said he was doing so because it was softer than a pillow. Friends don’t rest their heads on each other’s lower regions regardless of how soft it might be. Su Yu and Wu Bi fell asleep in this position and the next morning Wu Bi awoke first and secretly took a pix of Su Yu sleeping. Friends don’t secretly take pix of each other while sleeping.
7) Wu Bi was furious when he found the "Vixen,” as he called her, in Su Yu’s hotel room because he assumed Su Yu had sex with her. Friends don't get furious when a pal has sex with a girl. To the contrary, they congratulate him. Su Yu, meanwhile, gave profuse explanations and excuses for why the Vixen was there. Friends don't make excuses about having had sex with a girl. To the contrary, they brag about it.
8) Su Yu told the Vixen that he was mad when he had thought that Wu Bi liked her. He then added that he does not care if she likes Wu Bi back or not because it’s not about her. He also said that he did not punch Wu Bi for her sake, but for his own. This all translates to Su Yu saying he was angry and jealous when he had thought that Wu Bi liked her because he wants Wu Bi to like only him, himself.
9) Wu Bi was blatantly jealousy of anyone getting near Su Yu. Hell, he was jealous of the Vixen even before he met her. When he first heard her name at school, he went home and looked her up on social media, the way we all do when we like someone and want to check out our competition. Then he was jealous of Su Yu touching the “girl” at the mall. He even chastised Su Yu, saying, “You want to tell me why you were flirting with some girl?” And Su Yu, for his part, didn't find Wu Bi’s jealousy at all out of place. To the contrary, he got why Wu Bi was jealous and then scrambled to explain himself so that Wu Bi wouldn't think he was cheating.
10) Wu Bi had flat-out told the Vixen to stay away from Su Yu because, as he put it, “”Su Yu is mine.” Bam! If nothing else nailed it, this certainly did.
I'm interested in your reason for changing your mind. Because yesterday you said it was not a BL. Did a specific comment change your mind? Or was it the effect of all of the comments? Also, you said you don't agree with all my reasons. What reason do you not agree with? I am interested in different opinions so feel free to disagree! It's a boring discussion if we all think the same thing, right?
Ahahah I knew it, I was right about the misunderstanding. Reread my post of yesterday, I never said it was not a BL (for me arguing about BL or bromance is irrelevent) I just said at this point and from their (Wu Bi and Su Yu) perspective they are not in love yet, that's all (even if I think Su Yu begins to understand something since the reconciliation)
Well it will not be easy by writing to explain everything I think about your reasons and the fact that you misunderstand my position that I explain yesterday will not help.
Ok, you're saying it might become a BL later on, but as it stands they are not in love yet. Furthermore, you think the signs we're seeing could just as well be that of close brothers. I recall you saying that the wrestling scene did not indicate sexual attraction cuz you and your brothers wrestle and it's playful, not sexual. You also said Wu Bi wasn't really jealous about the Vixen at Su Yu's hotel but, instead, he was worried they could not be roommates anymore . It's cool if you have these opinions, because I welcome differing opinions.
For me it is a BL but all my posts are about analyzing their relationship and how they arrive to the lovers step.
About your 10 reasons, two arguments (on many):
- episode 8 - When Wu Bi cries, he explains that it is the first time he has a real friend. You can't use a scene before episode 8 to talk about BL if the main character himself say they are only friends at this point.
- episode13 - If Wu Bi is in love with Su Yu at this moment why he gives up so fast ? why when the girl calls him he said "I wish you happiness" ?
To be clear, for me, at this point (episode 16) and from their perspective they have a fusional brothers relationship but very close to change (it is the last step before love for me: ennemis, friends, best-friends, brothers, fusional brothers and lovers). But it is fromTHEIR perspective, we see that from their girl classmate perspective they are lovers and probably from your perspective too (and I respect your position)
All the physical contacts they had until now (episode 16) are quite normal for friends/brothers even if the "ass pillow" is particular.
For the jealous parts, it depends on the moment:
- At the hotel, his jealousy is more like "I searched for you all the day, I arrived at night, I let you alone while you do something with that girl you know I don't like". It is more than roommate, Wu Bi is scared that she will kick him out from Su Yu life at the moment where they became brothers/confidents (Su Yu will spend more time with her than with him, they will not be closed to each other because of her and we know that Su Yu is the only good thing in Wu Bi life and the reaction of Su Yu is really important because he tries to hold back Wu Bi).
- At the mall, it is more lover jealousy because Wu Bi insists on "you flirt with a girl"
As I already said, this whole story is based on feelings and relationship evolutions so their interactions evolved step by step (they have more physical contacts in the episodes 15 -16 than in all 14 previous = feelings and relationship evolutions), so for me you can't have an evolution if you begin by the last step (lovers)
And having an evolution help for the censor, because if the kiss arrives at the end you can't censor because everything is already up and we see that in Addicted, they censor from the moment of the blowjob.
This is certainly an interesting discussion - in part because there’s some grey area that can make it difficult to pin down. Like many pop-culture concepts it really boils down to how the individual defines BL. To me, the defining characteristic of BL is a clear “homoerotic” relationship (another thing to define). Thus, if there is clearly a desire to have a “sexual” relationship - then it is BL.
yonghwa7:This is certainly an interesting discussion - in part because there’s some grey area that can make it difficult to pin down. Like many pop-culture concepts it really boils down to how the individual defines BL. To me, the defining characteristic of BL is a clear “homoerotic” relationship (another thing to define). Thus, if there is clearly a desire to have a “sexual” relationship - then it is BL.
That's an important distinction. Because I was defining it as love, which is why I included #1, which is when Wu Bi was actually thrilled to have his allowance cut because he wanted to be poor in order to remain in Su Yu's world. But others would contend that he wanted to stay in Su Yu's world as a platonic friend. In fact, the director was going for a reading that said "platonic friends" because that's the way to slip under the censor's radar.
Your definition of sexual desire leaves no room for the possibility of 2 boys just wanting to be friends. Hence, it's much harder to depict this without alerting the censors eye. Nevertheless, I think the director managed to do it a couple of times. It was there in the scene where Su Yu rested his head on Wu Bi's bottom and said it was "softer than a pillow." Now, there was plenty of room on that bed for him to lie down without using Wu Bi's bottom. In fact, he has his own bed in his room.
If he used Wu Bi's bottom, it was because he wanted to physically touch him. In another scene it's Wu Bi who finds a way to touch Su Yu. I am referring, of course, to the scene where Wu Bi pulled Su Yu down onto the sofa and began to wrestle him. Their faces were far closer to each other than any hetero guys would have dared allowed. And they were wrestling in a far slower, gentler way than hetero boys would've. Wrestling was Wu Bi's way of getting his body to intertwine with Su Yu's, just as Su Yu's sleeping with his head on Wu Bi' bottom was his way of gaining physical contact.
In most BL's there is a phase before the confession wherein the boys are trying to find excuses to touch each other without it being too obvious. In "Where Your Eyes Linger" for example, Han Tae Joo pretends he cannot shower because of his injured arm, thus devising a way to get Kang Gook into the shower with him. That scene could be interpreted as "just friends helping each other." Yet for those open to seeing gay love, it was an intensely erotic scene.
drogon, I'll address these one by one.
-- episode 8 - When Wu Bi cries, he explains that it is the first time he has a real friend. You can't use a scene before episode 8 to talk about BL if the main character himself say they are only friends at this point.
RESPONSE: My explanation is that Wu Bi could not possibly tell his friends that he was in love with Su Yu, so he described Su Yu as his first real "friend." Now, it may be true that Su You was his first real friend, but I would contend that the friendship also turned into love.
--episode13 - If Wu Bi is in love with Su Yu at this moment why he gives up so fast ? why when the girl calls him he said "I wish you happiness" ?
RESPONSE: Wu Bi hadn't "given up." Rather, he was being sarcastic with the Vixen. It's similar to how people who are arguing with someone on a thread will end the argument by saying "Have a nice day." They don't actually mean they want to other person to have a nice day, right?
-- At the hotel, his jealousy is more like "I searched for you all the day, I arrived at night, I let you alone while you do something with that girl you know I don't like". It is more than roommate, Wu Bi is scared that she will kick him out from Su Yu life at the moment where they became brothers/confidents
RESPONSE: Yes, part of Wu Bi's anger was that he had searched for Su Yu all day long and he ended up with a girl Wu Bi doesn't like. But I interpreted Wu Bi's anger to have been a bit more complex because one of the reasons he dislikes the girl is that he's jealous of her. Remember, he had searched for her on social media the instant he first heard her name. In other words, he wanted to know what his competition was like.
- At the mall, it is more lover jealousy because Wu Bi insists on "you flirt with a girl"
RESPONSE: You seem to be agreeing with me here because you said it was more "lover jealousy."
-- Having an evolution help for the censor, because if the kiss arrives at the end you can't censor because everything is already up and we see that in Addicted, they censor from the moment of the blowjob.
RESPONSE: Excellent point. If the kiss comes too early then that gives the censors an earlier opportunity to cut the show off. In Addicted they got as far as the blow job in Ep 12. But there was a lot of very strong signals that Gu Ha and Bae Luo Yin were in love before that. Hell, in Ep 5 with the kidnapping scene, Gu Ha had flat out told Bae Luo Yin, "I want to fuck you." Yet the censors did not stop the show. It's as if they don't notice anything that's verbal, and only recognize a physical kiss between boys as meaning gay love.
Maggi64
I disagree but I respect your interpretation.
You really think that a crying Wu Bi who is destroyed by what's going on will think "oh I can't tell them that I love someone they don't know" ? In general opposite happenned, it is perfect time to confess.
I agree that their friendship will turn to love but not at this time. If you consider Wu Bi loves Su Yu at episode 8 why they don't step up at episode 16 ?
Don't answer me "because of censor" because you will melt real and fiction and I stay from THEIR perspective in the fictionnal world
Yes he gives up, Su Yu tries to hold him back but he leaves anyway and after Su Yu hits him he disappears and never try to pursue. And when he answers ofc he is sarcastic, he is not happy by the situation but he answers and stays alone in the bridge. Not a lover action specialy from Wu Bi that we know is the kind to act. For me he gives up because he thinks "Su Yu chooses her and not me" that's why when Su Yu comes to him for reconciliation he is not happy but more reassured, relieved and he begins to ask if Su Yu understands that the girl lied.
I agree about the competition with the girl but it could be explained by the fact that Wu Bi is alone without Su Yu and he doesn't want to take risk (but your interpretation could be correct). Maybe he wants to know the kind of people Su Yu loves ?
Yes at the mall it is kind of lover jealousy, Wu Bi begins to shift his feelings but he doesn't put a name of it now, but I really think Su Yu understand better (the last look they have in this scene is so relevent).
When I talk about evolution it is a process, not a black or white situation that's why there are a lot of left unsaid, a lot of little clues...
Maggi64
We can't really compare Addicted and Stay With Me, although they are based on the same novel. Addicted was made in a different time, when the censorship wasn't as strict as it is today. Back then BLs were allowed and only explicit scenes were cut off (but one could easily find those scenes on the Internet). No one asks if Addicted is a BL or a bromance, because everyone knows it is a BL. With Stay With Me it's a matter of personal interpretation, some will see it as a bromance and some will see it as a BL.
I look at it as a question of what the production itself is trying to tell us.
The clues go by fast, sometimes so fast that we can miss them.
For example, in Episode 3, the morning after Wu Bi first goes to Su Yu's home for dinner he's waiting for Su Yu in the street so he can tag along to school with him.
The camera pans over a sign: "Haircut and Shave, 8 Yuan".
And then we see Wu Bi, who is checking himself in a mirror and adjusting his hair. Did he just get a haircut, or is he just checking to see how he looks? (The presence of the sign makes me think he actually got a haircut.)
Whichever it is, it's as revealing as a girl who plays with her hair when her crush is near -- it's what sociologists call "grooming behavior". (In this case, maybe literally so!) Wu Bi is checking how he looks while he's waiting for his crush.
Another example: while Su Yu and Han Bokuang are eating KFC in Episode 2, they have a conversation about the Taiwanese girl:
Han Bokuang: I feel like she's interested in me.
Su Yu: How do you know?
HB: She's always picking on me.
SY: You think that means she likes you?
HB: Isn't that how boys show interest in girls?
SY: That's a boy's trick. Girls are different.
This, after several instances of Wu Bi "picking on" Su Yu. The implications don't dawn on Su Yu, but they ought to dawn on *us*!
These things, along with the posters in Wu Bi's room and Wu Bi telling Duoduo that he's "tormented by love", seem to present such unrefutable evidence that ROMANCE is at play instead of mere friendship, that I am starting to wonder if the people who continue to insist this is just a bromance are simply afraid of jinxing it.
I'd also like to know what additionally they'd want to see in order to agree it's a BL. I can't remember another BL series that encoded m/m love into its production as thoroughly as this one has. Yes, other BLs have been more upfront with the character dialog saying "I like So-and-so" but the subtlety here in this series doesn't mean a failure to commit.
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